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Post by mrtroc on Feb 14, 2021 20:15:42 GMT
He Mr. Testeronline,
Just read the announcement the SFD functionality isn't available until Q4 2021. Does this mean that any change can not be made by OBDEleven until this problem is resolved ?
I Hope you will answer!
MrTroc
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Post by Deleted on Feb 14, 2021 20:53:04 GMT
mrtroc, still don't think you are impacted by SFD (my understanding is you are on the MQB A1 platform not the MQB Evo platform that we have been told is SFD Protected) but in any case what the announcement means imo is that full SFD reach will not be available till later in the year. We already know that you can code on a number of control units as you will see from the Seat Leon MK4 / Golf 8 / Skoda Octavia MK4 Threads. However some of them are locked down and these you cant use OBD11 till the final fix is in place. Hopes that helps.
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Post by dv52 (Australia) on Feb 14, 2021 23:00:45 GMT
what the announcement means imo is that full SFD reach will not be available till later in the year. @testeronline : Forgive my pedant tendency and without intending any offense to your clearly far better knowledge of OBD11's capabilities - BUT given the historic pattern of (not) meeting past SFD deadlines, I respectfully suggest that a more accurate synopsis might be:
At least for the present and subject to future media releases - what the announcement means imo is that full SFD reach will not be available till later in the year.
Again without meaning offense to either VOLTIS IT, or you - the intriguingly consistent pattern of moving deadlines in successive media releases regarding SFD strongly suggests (to me, at least) one of two basic problems; either integrating a SFD solution into the OBD11 software is low priority, or a fix is fundamentally inconsistent with the new protection protocol, or the way that OBD11 works (or both).
Given the potential impact on future sales of OBD11 devices because of SFD, I can't believe that the former reason is possible (in fact I tend to believe that finding a solution to SFD must be one of the highest priority tasks for Board-members/shareholders). Which leaves me with concluding that restrictions in the latter option are binding (especially since media releases regarding the timeline for a SFD fix are so pithy)
Don
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Post by Deleted on Feb 14, 2021 23:48:44 GMT
dv52 (Australia) Don I take no offense you always offer help and perspective but we are all working in the dark here so its all best guess. Sfd dont change how OBD11 Works imo, its just an extra layer of security that will pass info around to unlock control units, some say that the unlock will last for a period of time others that it closes each time you leave the control unit (time will tell) but that is a lot of extra data flowing over the cloud that needs to be sized and managed. Based on the number of issue I see on Golf and Leon sites about cars onboard systems being able to connect to VAG HQ Servers and Control Units being replaced and multiple software updates there is always the possibility that VW Have issue and third party support will be at the bottom of the fix queue. But that is all my guess work. Dont forget there is the BMW development that could be getting in the way and could raise a lot of new users... As we have seen there are lots of guys out there offering work arounds using a Geko account, maybe VW Will start to look into this like the guys on the VW Forum were talking about. Happy with your comments about how its described but just to add to the conversation, Firstly SFD ain't in the US Yet, The MQB Evo is a brand new platform so I suspect a lot of people will be not looking to do much coding to the cars considering the amount of issues they (VW) are still having with new cars so the demand will be lighter.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 15, 2021 11:47:18 GMT
Yes thank you we have seen this one and the Dev team have just confirmed that the OBD11 SFD Connection process may not be up and running till Q4.
Update
Update 2
And here is another tool that is offering SFD Capability vctool.app/Just a quick update I was looking at vagupdate today and noticed they have updated there posting. ONLY WORKSHOPS ARE ALLOWED TO BUY. NO PERSONAL USE OR RESELLING PURPOSES!***
and just to add the vctool.app/ you have to pay each time you need a token and it looks like a monthly subscription or pay as you go.
also noted that OBDapp can be used but it appears it locks the control unit when you disconnect so it cant be used as a means to open up control unit and code with other tools.
VCP As stated before requires you to have a GEKO account.
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Post by mrtroc on Feb 15, 2021 21:13:53 GMT
Yes thank you we have seen this one and the Dev team have just confirmed that the OBD11 SFD Connection process may not be up and running till Q4.
Update
Update 2
And here is another tool that is offering SFD Capability vctool.app/Just a quick update I was looking at vagupdate today and noticed they have updated there posting. ONLY WORKSHOPS ARE ALLOWED TO BUY. NO PERSONAL USE OR RESELLING PURPOSES!***
and just to add the vctool.app/ you have to pay each time you need a token and it looks like a monthly subscription or pay as you go.
also noted that OBDapp can be used but it appears it locks the control unit when you disconnect so it cant be used as a means to open up control unit and code with other tools.
VCP As stated before requires you to have a GEKO account.
He Guys, Just saw something on youtube: Is this possible to built in the OBDEleven software ? There are numerous other examples to be found on the internet how the SFD problem can be solved. SFD was already known for quite some time It is possible for "professional" dealersoftware distributors to get the "SFD functonality built in", what seems to be problem then for VOLTAS ? |
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Post by Deleted on Feb 15, 2021 22:24:02 GMT
Simple answer you need to ask Voltas directly I would not expect to see an answer here (but happy to be proved wrong) All the items I have seen working have required access to a Geko account and or ODIS / VAS 5054a / VAS 6154a so not a solution for this tool or normal user base (due to cost). Voltas have told us that VAG are building a third party interface that OBD11 will be using so not like for like.
EDIT, Have seen on another site that some of the companies (including those named in previous post's may be scammers so be warned.
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Post by omadon on Feb 16, 2021 19:53:46 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Mar 10, 2021 11:37:43 GMT
Interesting post here forums.ross-tech.com/index.php?threads/22068/page-6#post-230239 which echo's what I have seen on this and other sites. To summarize SFD Seems to be changing on some cars where it was possible to code now its not. Not a surprise as the original brief implied that these units would be locked down (unlike the partial lockdown we have seen) |
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Post by Deleted on Mar 16, 2021 15:40:15 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Mar 23, 2021 19:48:40 GMT
Another update on sfd, found this wiki forum.vcdspro.de/index.php?/wiki/misc/allgemeine-informationen/content/sfd-schutz-der-fahrzeugdiagnose-r32/&_rid=70745 which has some interesting information that also ties into forums.ross-tech.com/index.php?threads/22068/page-6#post-230239 and further some thoughts that newty had early on in the SFD Release.
Which control units are currently protected by SFD?We will update the following list again and again to the best of our knowledge. Note: The following list shows the control units in which we have already found SFD. This does not mean that all of these control units are protected by SFD in every new vehicle. To the best of our knowledge, this varies from vehicle to vehicle or control unit to control unit. For example, it may be that in one Octavia IV only 01 is protected by SFD, whereas in the next Octavia IV 01, 09 & 19 are protected by SFD. MQBevo platform (Golf 8, Octavia IV, Leon IV, A3 8Y, etc.) 01 - Motor electronics Due to EU templates, the protection was lifted again for higher software versions 09 - Central electrics 17 - dash panel insert 19 - Diagnostic interface 5F - information electronics
To re-iterate if you go to live data and search for SFD you will find possibly two values that confirm if the control unit is SFD Protected. Further we also know that some control units are locked down (control unit 09) so you cant do anything without connection to VAG, But others like 17 are still on many cars able to be updated.
I would also add that today I saw another forum saying that they were not sure OBD11 would build an interface unless they were going to hack it, I personally believe they have an agreement / licence with VAG To build a formal and supported interface (as will others in time).
As always with OBD11 and VAG these seem to take a long time to build but I am a strong believer that this will be a authorized interface and not a hack like some tools we have seen.
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Post by dv52 (Australia) on Mar 23, 2021 20:09:29 GMT
@testeronline : Thanks for the latest update - your efforts in providing these snippets of information are much appreciated by all of us that are waiting for a solution to this (draconian) protocol. Your vcdspro link doesn't appear to provide much actual new information, it seems to be more of a meta-data synopsis of stuff that you have made available in your other posts. But it is good to have the information summarized into one place- keep up the good work - please
Don
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Post by kafi on Mar 25, 2021 16:52:38 GMT
According to my information and this PDF from above also shows it, private individuals will no longer have access to the control units. That means that many and that includes ODBeleven will get big problems. I e.g. will now initially wait with the purchase of a device.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 25, 2021 17:29:49 GMT
kafi you comment is not strictly true. In theory only SFD Protected control units are impacted and currently even some of those which are supposed to be protected are not. Based on the right to repair rules in both Europe and more importantly (for vw) the US I have not doubt that VW Will allow you to code your car as before (what is unclear is if there is going to be an extra cost). OBD11 Have confirmed that they are in the process of building one and it should be ready by Q4 2021 although I am sure (based on previous big builds) there will be some delay.
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Post by kafi on Mar 25, 2021 17:44:59 GMT
I will expect it to be like you write, but the fact is that many will now refrain from buying the devices, to which I belong. I don't spend any money on something if I don't know whether it will still work tomorrow or what additional costs will be incurred. Many will think so, and it is very bad for the manufacturers of the devices.
We will see...
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Post by nexus6 on Mar 27, 2021 0:13:05 GMT
Hi,
I've read all your posts ... they are very interesting. I am very ignorant in terms of coding and I'm almost ashamed to submit my problem  Anyway ... I am the owner of an Audi A3 TFSI30 SB 8Y Stronic 2020 (with SFD), and my problem is just deactivating the annoying Star&Stop and some other small ones (e.g. oil service reset), which with my old 8V I had no problem deactivating with OBD11. Does any good heart have any suggestions for me, waiting for Voltas to implement the device for my car ? Thanks :-) |
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Post by josuemk7 on Jun 3, 2021 8:27:11 GMT
My 2020 gti s won't let me do a majority of the apps? Is all thus sfd talk affecting it? Any idea when 2020 models will be able to use the apps?
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Post by massimo23 on Jun 3, 2021 10:43:55 GMT
Do you own a Golf 8 Gti model or 7?
Because I don't get any apps on mine for the Golf 8.
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Post by josuemk7 on Jun 3, 2021 15:31:24 GMT
Mk7.5
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Post by Deleted on Jun 3, 2021 17:12:12 GMT
Do you have a pro licence or do you just want to use apps.
Which apps did you want to use but dont work (I presume you get error message)
With regards to MK8 There will be no apps partly because of SFD (Which to OBD11 Is limited to what control units can be coded) but more importantly apps get built when users provide the request and the coding.
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Post by josuemk7 on Jun 4, 2021 17:33:14 GMT
I do have pro. Just the basic stuff like windows roll up n down with fob, mirror tilt, ambient light color change.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 4, 2021 21:16:34 GMT
There are a few issues around the 2020 cars.
1/ SFD this security process (which OBD11 Should have sorted by end of this year) means you cant code on all control units but it does depend on the production month of your car.
2/ VW (Or more accuratly VAG) have now introduced a new security feature that was previously only on Audi cars and that is you have to have the bonet open to do coding (scans work fine but coding bonnet needs to be open)
3/ Not all cars can support all one click apps.
So firstly when you run a one click app do you get an error message if so what is it
Secondly have you tried running the apps with the bonnet open
Lastly have you tried coding manually the change (which is the best way imo).
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Post by josuemk7 on Jun 8, 2021 18:51:02 GMT
IIRC it says app unavailable when I do one click app. And I haven't tried long coding not entirely sure how to do that
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Post by Deleted on Jun 10, 2021 7:33:54 GMT
Saw similar thread to this today www.cnet.com/roadshow/news/volkswagen-autonomous-tech-future-cars-subscriptions/ on the VCDS Site. Whilst not directly connected to SFD Perhaps this is a longer term setup so that where VAG are offering subscription service the coding will not be allowed by tools other than VW directly. My favorite bit is you may be able to hire a video game while sitting in your car charging it 
How do I recognise SFD? taken from here car-diagnostics.eu/blog/sfd-schutz-fahrzeug-diagnoseAs with component protection and FEC/SWaP, the gateway now takes on the master role. With component protection and FEC/SWaP keys for the VCRN (individualisation feature) calculation (from generation 5.1), the gateway was also already the master. With the new generation of the Modular Infotainment Building Kit (MIB3), the gateway also takes on the master role of managing function enabling (FEC/SWaP). In simple terms, this means that you can clearly recognise a vehicle with SFD (MQBevo / MQB2020) by a gateway with part number 5WA 907 530. And the part number 1EA-937-012 indicates a vehicle on the MEB platform (currently ID3 and ID4) also shows you a vehicle that uses SFD.
it agrees with all the cars in my Garage
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Post by julesnovoa on Jun 12, 2021 2:46:17 GMT
Funny thing, I just brought 2 weeks ago a Q3 Sport Back MY 2021, I changed with OBDELEVEN “Oil temperature in DIS”, “Lap Timer”, “Needle sweep”, “Pulsation of start button” and Works perfecty however now the apps shows a error “ignation try again”
I Think this is a different thing but I cant fix it.
Any help here?
Please
Julio
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Post by brickwalls on Jun 14, 2021 1:11:20 GMT
Yes I changed a few things last week, but now get the same connection error message.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 14, 2021 8:10:52 GMT
Are you guys running Android or IOS the reason I ask is that my IOS Phone updated this morning and just wondered if that was causing the issue.
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Post by brickwalls on Jun 14, 2021 8:37:03 GMT
Hi Tester: Android 11 on Galaxy S10 5G.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 14, 2021 8:53:45 GMT
OK I will go give my Android phone a test today, in the mean time make sure you report the issue directly to support via the in app help function.
UPDATE:
Did some changes using apps on my 2014 car with Android 9 and all works fine I am afraid.
The only thing to comment is did you have your bonnet open when doing the coding otherwise it possibly wont work.
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Post by sponger85 on Jun 17, 2021 11:29:06 GMT
I can verify my US Model 2020 GTI S (MK7 FL) with 48 Byte (vs 30 byte in my 2017 Alltrack) needed the hood open to save long coding.
Thank you for the tip @testeronline
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