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Post by josh79 on Nov 13, 2020 19:12:27 GMT
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Post by dv52 (Australia) on Nov 13, 2020 20:19:05 GMT
Just for interest and because of the dialogue on this thread (and other forums), I decided to compare the adaptation channel database from the central-electric modules (@address hex09) in a Golf mk8 and a Golf mk7.5 For the purpose of my exercise, I chose the 2 x modules as follows: Gold mk8 : 5WA-937-086-JGolf mk7.5: 5Q0-937-084-CPI used MS Excel and MS Access for the comparison, and adaptation channel databases were generated by another diagnostic cable The overall results are as follows: Golf | BCM | Total - Channel Count | Total - Unique Channel Names | Channel names common to both BCMs | Mk8 | 5WA-937-086-J | 2800 | 2439 | 361 | Mk7.5 | 5Q0-937-084-CP | 2045 | 1684 | 361 |
Note: "Unique Channel Names"=channel names that only appear in the one BCM (and not in the other BCM) As is clearly obvious from the numbers, the modules are significantly different from a "tweaking" perspective - meaning that it's highly doubtful that any of OBD11's one-click APPs from previous model Golf will work on new MQB37W (Golf 8) platform
As an example of the difference, I was particularly interested in how the mk8 BCM handled Leuchte-sets. In older version MQB vehicles, these consisted of a bunch of 19 x adaptation channels. In mk8s, it appears that each Leuchte-set is now a group of 23 channels. I compare the structure of a Leuchte-set for the old and new platforms in the picture below: This means that care will need to be taken when translating tweak instructions relating to light function changes from a mk7/7.5 to a mk8 (assuming of course that access to code the BCM is obtained in the SFD environment)!! Don
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Post by Deleted on Nov 13, 2020 20:53:25 GMT
dv52 (Australia) don one small issue this is a USA 7.5 2021 model not sure if that is SFD impacted or not
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Post by dv52 (Australia) on Nov 14, 2020 0:09:54 GMT
^^^@testeronline : AFAIK, there are no NAR model Golfs that are built on MQB37W platform, which means that SFD hasn't reached the American shores as yet! My post above was not intended to relate specifically to your discussion with josh79 - it was more of a general comment Don
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Post by Deleted on Nov 14, 2020 8:23:22 GMT
sorry my bad just wanted to confirm
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Post by lijetta18t on Nov 14, 2020 20:48:24 GMT
^^^@testeronline : AFAIK, there are no NAR model Golfs that are built on MQB37W platform, which means that SFD hasn't reached the American shores as yet! My post above was not intended to relate specifically to your discussion with josh79 - it was more of a general comment Don Don, I do want to note that US cars can be weird during transition years were the car is a previous generation but receive all new electrics from the current generations overseas within it. Example: Mk5 Jetta used the Mk5 electronics (red cluster) from 2005.5 (half years are a thing here) until 2009 but the generation ran until 2010. In 2010, it was all Mk6 electronics that threw everyone off since it was a large change at the time. Mk6 Jetta here also uses Polo/T5 electronics for their normal trims but Mk6 Golf/GTI electronics in the GLI. This being said, I can total see these 2021 US Mk7.5s having some of the new MQB37W electronics working their way into them.
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Post by dv52 (Australia) on Nov 20, 2020 20:38:03 GMT
lijetta18t: Hi. Thomas: hmm............... I don't profess to understand any VAG decisions - let alone those of VW America and NAR models certainly do have individual characteristics that are unique. However, from the module adaptation maps that I've seen of the mk8 models, they do appear to be significantly different (as per my comparison of the BCMs above). I hope that SFD is a long time coming to your market - but only time will tell. In any event, if VOLTAS's messages are correct, the solution to SFD should be available to render the protocols inoperative! Don
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cjje
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Post by cjje on Nov 26, 2020 22:58:54 GMT
cjje as far as I am aware your car is not on the MQB Evo platform so currently not impacted by SFD. If you want a definitive answer please contact support via the in app help function they should be able to confirm
Thanks guys, I'm hoping to get my new car in a few weeks' time, so can try OBDeleven out then Just an update. I've used my OBDeleven dongle on my new Karoq, and been able to use the one-click apps to turn the Soundaktor off, and to show the fan speed when the Climatronic is on auto. But attempts to apply the 'Comfort Flick indicator' and 'Pulsation of Start button' apps failed with a message saying they weren't supported (despite being present on the phone app). My car has keyless entry and start by the way. Still the main reason for buying the OBDeleven system was to turn off the Soundaktor, so it's met that need for me! Chris
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Post by tonykr76 on Dec 7, 2020 15:02:07 GMT
Hello to all. It would seen that someone has managed to activate which mod on the golf 8
Are there any updates ?
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Post by Deleted on Dec 7, 2020 16:00:14 GMT
According to OBD Dev team they are waiting on VW API to provide interface to fix it.
vcp If you have a Geko account you can fully code the car.
From what i have seen if you can connect to your car with OBD11 Then in theory you can still code on the control units that are not impacted by SFD and make changes but don't have access to MK8 so cant confirm.
Update just seen this today but not had confirmation from any other source on all of them car-diagnostics.eu/en/blog/sfd-schutz-fahrzeug-diagnoseUpdate from November 16, 2020: The following control units are now officially known in relation to SFD: 01 - engine electronics - seen this on a couple threads 09 - Electronic central electrics - seen this on a couple threads 15 - airbag 17 - dash panel insert 19 - Diagnostic interface for data bus - seen this on a couple threads 23 - Brake booster 4B - multifunction controller 5F - information electronics 1 - seen this on a couple threads 75 - Emergency module and communication unit
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Post by damian on Dec 9, 2020 19:38:00 GMT
How about A5 - Driver Assistance?
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Post by Deleted on Dec 9, 2020 19:47:54 GMT
damian as per your other question I have raised this with support because I have been led to believe that non sfd control units are open for coding... A/W Feedback from support in the next couple days. I also did say that it might be worth trying coding with bonnet open as this seems to be applied to more and more vag cars.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 10, 2020 13:40:23 GMT
Feedback from OBD11 Technical support today.
1/ They do not have a full list of what control units are and are not impacted by SFD So my above list is the best i can offer at this time.
2/ With regards to having the bonnet open to code the answer was if its an Audi from 2018 Most likley you will need top open the bonnet If its a VW From late 2020 onward are most likely to need bonnet open (which ties up with what i have seen on the web) Skoda and Seat its still unclear but i have certainly seen Skoda owners confirming they need to open bonnet, nothing from Seat yet.
3/ With regards to can you still code on the non SFD control units - no answer so I have gone back and asked this specifically and will update this thread when I get an answer.
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Post by tonykr76 on Dec 10, 2020 19:06:52 GMT
Hi testeronline
today I tried to change the Engine power value from the adaptation dashboard with the hood open and it asked me for the security code
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Post by dv52 (Australia) on Dec 10, 2020 20:13:30 GMT
^^^^^^Antonio: Just as I thought- see my PM message!!! I'm surprised that you have gotten that far - I would have thought that the hex17 module would have been captured by SFD protocol restriction on a mk8!
Anyhow, normally public access to security codes for new model VAG cars is as rare as rocking horse shit!! . But I'm not sure what arrangement VOLTAS IT has under their special license with VW - so try asking support maybe?
Happy to be proven wrong, and I don't think that it will work, but the security code for the dashboard module on the latest model Golf mk7.5s was 47115 - try it!!! I don't know if the mk8 even still uses 5 x digit security codes - there were rumors that VAG were considering 6 x digit codes?
I assume that you are aware that UDS modules (like those in your car) get cranky if multiple attempts are made to enter the wrong security codes - they lock-out and refuse to take any further attempts. The lock-out time varies - but it count-downs with the ignition switch-on.
You can check if the module has locked-out by the value in the last screen in my instructions below (note: I've shown the central electrics module in my instructions - but all modules have the same facility):
Don
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Post by Deleted on Dec 10, 2020 21:13:27 GMT
Well as I said before this list is based on what others say on the web. So as you have go to the Security code level that is good but have you tried to do the same on 5f, do you get security code or does it just not work. Reason I ask it as OBD11 have done nothing so far so its very possible the obd11 code ask's for security code but actually its because it is confused about feedback. However thanks for sharing.
One other question have you tried doing any coding with hood closed do you get an error message, OBD11 Already confirmed to me today that they dont have a definitive list of cars that need the hood open, I would also add I would not expect them to have any security codes otherwise why would they build a tool to help you find more.
Update, I just double checked with Support and they confirmed they do not have access to the codes other than those shown having been used by users in the app.
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Post by tonykr76 on Dec 11, 2020 10:36:27 GMT
Hi you both :-) @ DV52 yes i had read your late pm, i tried with code 47115 and it tells me non aviable function voltas told me they don't have this code and to google :-( @testeronline , I tried today both with the hood closed and open for editing in the dashboard and it was identical, yesterday with the hood closed I did not get the code request pop-up
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Post by dv52 (Australia) on Dec 11, 2020 19:23:28 GMT
tonykr76: results are not surprising and as I said - it was a long-shot, but worth trying !!!
Interesting that your attempt to enter 47115 didn't even get as far as to cause the invalid key counter in your second screen to increment. Not sure what this means but I suspect that the OBD11 software still thinks the the security protocol on a mk8 is the same as previous models mk7/mk7.5!
I hope/expect that this "deficiency" is corrected soon as part of the promised fix for SFD!
Anyhow, it seems that you are what's known as "an early adopter" - which means that your learning-curve comes from personal experimentation and lots of trial-and-error. Please continue to share your observations
Don
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Post by Deleted on Dec 11, 2020 22:19:51 GMT
dv52 (Australia) I would add to this info the following thread forum.obdeleven.com/thread/10626/coding-new-kl?page=1&scrollTo=47691 in this case the first guy had tried coding and it did not accept, however after bonnet open it worked although still more coding to do by the look of it. Second user on the thread seems to be saying Internal lights have been coded but i am trying to get the coding and confirmation it is a MK4 First.
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Post by tonykr76 on Dec 12, 2020 11:38:14 GMT
i checked the sfd status of the live data on the module dashboard
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Post by Deleted on Dec 12, 2020 13:46:48 GMT
tonykr76 That is very helpful at least we can now advise people to use the Live data to presumably see status of SFD. Thanks very much for sharing. Just being very cheeky could you (and there is no rush at all) do the same live data on Control Unit 01, 09, 16 (non sfd hopefully) just so we can see what that will look like. UPDATE I have already raised this but as per usual I am afraid when OBD11 Update there website stuff always goes wrong. Latest error i have found is they have removed the SFD Warning from the English view but its still there for all other languages - be warned this device cant code SFD Control units yet. UPDATE, found the following information on Control unit 09: under live data we have two SFD Items
activation status Bonnet test
Under Basic Settings I can now see a new item - SFD Etc
Under live data i found SFD Activated Status under following control units
03 brakes - This has the live data info but other sites say its not impacted.
09 Central Electrics 15 Airbag - This was updated but double checked with live data.
17 Dashboard 19 Gateway 23 Brake Boost 4b Multifunction Module 5f Multimedia 75 telemetrics
Another feature on OBD11 That I saw today, Control Unit 09 on post 2016 cars did not use Long Coding, however OBD11 Still showed the Long Coding menu option with all values set to 0000000, looked at the Golf 8 and under 09 there is no longer a long coding section.
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Post by dv52 (Australia) on Dec 13, 2020 22:22:07 GMT
tonykr76 That is very helpful at least we can now advise people to use the Live data to presumably see status of SFD. Thanks very much for sharing. tonykr76 - let me add my thanks to @testeronline appreciation for your "first-mover" information. Your willingness to spend your time to share your observations is exactly why forums like this exist - well done!! @ Under live data i found SFD Activated Status under following control units 03 brakes 09 Central Electrics 17 Dashboard 19 Gateway 23 Brake Boost 4b Multifunction Module 5f Multimedia 75 telemetrics @testeronline: Interesting, I had anticipated that the SFD locked modules for a mk8 would replicate the modules that were captured in the Component Protection constellation for the mk7/7.5 - which is like this:
Your list pretty much confirms my expectations that SFD is the second generation of CP - and it begs the question as to whether (and when) we will see the third generation? Hmm......... I wonder if SFD protocol has a master module and if so, is it the Gateway module as per CP?
The other interesting conundrum about the similarity between the module lists for CP and SFD is the different stated purposes for the 2 x protocols; according to VAG, CP's objective is to combat module theft and SFD objective is "an increased requirement for protection of data". Two very different purposes which apparently are completely divorced from VAG's commercial objective to increase shareholder returns- go-figure!!
@ Another feature on OBD11 That I saw today, Control Unit 09 on post 2016 cars did not use Long Coding, however OBD11 Still showed the Long Coding menu option with all values set to 0000000, looked at the Golf 8 and under 09 there is no longer a long coding section. @testeronline : Yes, from about mid 2016, the hex09 modules (on MQB platform vehicles) no longer had long-code - all the software switches were transferred to adaptation channels. I've notice the same dynamic that you describe on VCDS (i.e. the absence of the zero-string) on later model mk7.5s. My hunch is that this happens within the module when the OBD-II PID (On-board diagnostics Parameter IDs, which are the codes used to request data from a vehicle by the diagnostic tool) is sent to the hex09 module. Personally, I think that the total absence of a long-code string on these newer modules is good - because a number of OBD11 users have sometimes forced values into the zero-string thinking that the software switches are active. Can't happen (I hope) in the newer modules !!
Don
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Post by Deleted on Dec 13, 2020 22:48:55 GMT
dv52 (Australia) Don as far as i can see because the long coding string is now not shown in the underlying data it also means that OBD11 wont (based on what I have seen so far) display the Long coding menu item, Afraid users wont be able to try and code it but I am guessing we are going to get a number of WHERE IS MY LONG CODING but hey ho. I only have access to offline data so is there any way I can see if there is component protection (as there was in the past) if not we will have to wait and see when get hands on real car. However in general my personal view is that VW Stated aim is to sell users upgrades to the car over whatever connection system they are using at the time or via dealership (That was published in Reuters some time ago). The benefit of this new approach (with regards to licensed tools) means that as a minimum they (VAG) will have a record of changes being made to SFD Components or possible a complete odis style update. Further when my friends in Eastern Europe / China give us a back door work around VW Dealerships will be able to use ODIS To easily compare and identify any changes to the car. As a side point this is already happening in the BMW World where dealerships are forcing people (at cost) to revert (via dealership) coding to stock check out www.vwroc.com/forums/topic/37624-mk8-and-vcds-etc/ for full details. Benefit for Warranty claims from VW Perspective is huge but also it enables them to see what people want and try and add that to the list of stuff you can buy online.... It also helps keep the US and European market happy about various Right to Repair concerns.
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Post by zabes64 on Dec 16, 2020 3:48:12 GMT
I checked my NA 2020 Tiguan for the SFD under live data in 03 - Brakes because I was getting the 31 - Function Not Available in long coding, but there was no SFD to be found.
Was thinking that was the possibility of why I couldn't long code Brakes to add Auto Hold, but anyway, at least on the US 2020 Tiguan no SFD under Live
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Post by Deleted on Dec 16, 2020 8:45:37 GMT
zabes64 I am pretty sure that North America does not have the SFD option yet on any of the VAG Vehicles however it might be worth trying to code with bonnet open as this new security feature seems to be fitted across the range now.
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Post by zabes64 on Dec 16, 2020 19:56:37 GMT
Oh I did that as well, also checked to see if the live data had a bonnet open with SFD, didn't find anything, so the bonnet open my not be affecting US 20s.
Apparently VCDS can long code Control Unit 03 - ABS Brakes, so it's an issue with OBDeleven not working with 03, but at least it's not a lock out..
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Post by Deleted on Dec 16, 2020 22:09:08 GMT
As I said above pretty sure you guys in North America dont have SFD YET.
And beside that at this stage the only cars we are aware that suffer SFD in Europe are the MQB Evo platform motors but the Tiguan is a MQB A2 platform motor so my understanding is not part of SFD.
Personally I would (assuming you are on an android device) clear the cache on the app and try again. If that does not work always worth a call with support via the in app help function.
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Post by dv52 (Australia) on Dec 17, 2020 20:29:24 GMT
I checked my NA 2020 Tiguan for the SFD under live data in 03 - Brakes because I was getting the 31 - Function Not Available in long coding, but there was no SFD to be found. Was thinking that was the possibility of why I couldn't long code Brakes to add Auto Hold, but anyway, at least on the US 2020 Tiguan no SFD under Live
Yes, as @testeronline says - SFD hasn't yet reached the shores of the land-of-the-free!! The new protocol has infected European MQB vehicles - but AFAIK, only those built with MQB37W platform (i.e. Golf 8).
And in any event, even if SFD were to be implicated in your observations, it wouldn't be the reason for the live-data problem because this function is only reading module information - it's not attempting to change any module values.
As for the long-code aspect of your problem, the issue may be that you need to enter the correct security code before access is allowed to change the Byte/Bit values. The hex03 module (Brake module) on MQB platform cars is unique in that it has a relatively large number of security codes, each of which are applicable to just a narrow range of activities and many are restricted to 1 x activity!
For example, here's a list of some of the security codes for the hex03 module for MQB platform cars - of which I'm aware (this is not a complete list): 11966 15081 18573 20103 24435 24990 25004 25757 28183 31857 37202 40168 44595 40304 10505 19249 10815 37203 11122 14108 14451 25377 32304 33776 33777 37201 37483 74999 75201 75202
I would caution against randomly attempting to use the numbers above. These modules tend to get cranky if multiple attempts are made to enter incorrect security codes. They lock-out for a period of time which counts-down with the ignition turned-on.
Here are the instructions for confirming if the module is in lock-out mode (I've shown the hex09 module, but of course the hex03 module should be selected in this instance); the maximum number before lock-out in the last screenshot varies with modules, but generally it must be less than 3 (and ideally, it should be 0):
Don
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Post by josecarlosc on Dec 31, 2020 21:56:59 GMT
SFD might be already in the us since the dongle is not working on my atlas CS 2021 but it is working on my 2018
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Post by dv52 (Australia) on Dec 31, 2020 22:55:40 GMT
josecarlosc: hmm........... I very much doubt it given the litigious cuture in America and the legal prohibitions in your laws Don
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