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Post by lykkedk on Aug 6, 2024 5:43:41 GMT
Hi...
I just bought this car a week ago :
Golf 7 (2019) 1.5 Tsi Evo 130 Dsg7
Well, being a geek by nature I ordred the OBDeleven
with the VAG 12month to try it out.
So quistion is, if I need some repair during the guarentee period,
can the shop see if I attached the OBD and maybe change
some bits to try it out?
Or should I rather wait a little while until I now everything is
ok with the car?
Rgds; Jesper
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Post by dv52 (Australia) on Aug 6, 2024 23:47:09 GMT
Jesper: Hi. As a general guide when using OBD11, there really is only ONE person responsible for the changes that you make with your new diagnostic device!
OBD11 is a two-edged sword; it will allow you to tailor your new mk7 to your personal wants - but this benefit comes with the risk that you could break stuff. It's up to you to manage this risk through care and by learning how to use the device.
I'm sure that you will make errors - in fact, I hope that you do make errors because these are the perfect learning environment. However, if you do manage to break something - instead of getting a dealer to fix the problem, I suggest that you man-up and accept responsibility for your actions!
I might sound a tad harsh - but it's just the morally correct thing to do!
Don
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Post by lykkedk on Aug 7, 2024 4:24:30 GMT
Hi; Don and thanks for the reply.
I believe that my question was misunderstood.
Well sometimes this happens for me being a non native
English speaking one.
I'm fully aware of the "risk" and being a electronic geek
for many years making lots of errors and fault is part of
the game of course 😁
What I meant was, if I logon/going online on the car,
will it be "logged" so that the dealer with his test equipment
can see this, I'm not saying that I would not be responsible
for errors I make, but let's say I change something which
is actually working as expected, no problem, but would
it be part of the diagnostic or some possible fault clearance log?
I hope it is better explained now?
Actually I did not receive the OBD yet, still on it's shipping way to DK.
Another thing I have in mind.
Being a long time hobby programmer, mostly Python, Arduino and
Shell scripting, mostly binding diy electronics together
with some MCU's (ESP32, Raspberry pi etc...) I'm used
to have the source code to compile.
The enginecontroller is not like this, there we only
change the values which the actually compiled program
is using right? We do not have any access
to the source code? (Only VW have the source code?)
So being all new to this, maybe stb. quistion.
Hope you got the time to answer.
Rgds; Jesper
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Post by lykkedk on Aug 7, 2024 17:37:59 GMT
Uh, one more question.
My car :: Golf 7 (2019) 1.5 Tsi Evo 130 Dsg7
I'm not sure which specific Golf to choose, none of
them in the OBD11 app. is this specific model.
I searched everywhere but can't find the answer.
Jesper.
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Post by dv52 (Australia) on Aug 7, 2024 23:33:14 GMT
Jsper: OK - my bad, I thought that you were asking a different question!! As for your re-stated substantive question - if this car is a mk7/mk7.5 (i.e. MQB platform), it will NOT have an "on-line" presence unless the car is physically connected to the dealer tool (ODIS). This means that when you have connected the OBD11 software to the dongle, the dealer will be blind to your activities during the active OBD11 session. If this car were to be the later model Golf (i.e. mk8), stuff is different because MQB-evo platform vehicles do have an on-line presence. However, even on a mk8 - I do NOT believe that dealers and/or the deities on the VAG mother-ship have an interest in when, or what happens in active third-party diagnostic sessions! But, the mk8 has something called "SFD" protection - this means that to unlock key modules in these cars, you must agree to make your identity and information about the coding changes available to the VAG group via OBD11's records!
For the mk7/mk7.5 - of course the dealer can identify any changes made to the car's coding by your OBD11 activities when/if-ever the car is hooked-up-to ODIS. ALL MQB platform cars have a duplicate copy of their factory coding stored on VAG's central server (called "FAZIT") - dealers have access to this database via remote connection. But, dealers seldom check with FAZIT for coding changes unless there is a suspicion that a reported fault is related to this cause,
As for for your second question, yes- control module "source-code" is the IP of the VAG group and generally there is nothing in the public domain about how it operates.
But, OBD11 can read/write-to the module EEPROM (one memory location at a time) - so users have the option to change this software. Of course, without knowing anything about the manufacturer's original "source-code", understanding what changes to make can be tricky - but it is still possible nevertheless! And no - there is no compiler facility for the UDS/ODX protocol that the modules on this car use - if you want to make changes to the module EEPROM -it's ALL machine-code based (at a hexadecimal level) and often involving the separate calculation of CRC values!
Don
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Post by lykkedk on Aug 8, 2024 4:25:28 GMT
Thanks a lot Don 😀...
This answers all the questions I had.
Only thing is that when I receive my OBD11 (maybe tomorrow), will
it NOT? be absolutely necessary to know the exact model for the 1. connection? This information is not stated anywhere?
Will the OBD tell this when reading the data? Sry. I really don't
see this written anywhere?
Regarding the closed source-code it was what to expect ofcause.
Making sense that they wrote it all or partly in the machine language
to have the highest speed, also taking into account that some
of the enginecontrollers are "old" back when MCU'S where somewhat
at slow speed Mhz wise 😁
Don I read somewhere that you had youre own testbench, right?
Would you share some information regarding this I'm curious.
Jesper.
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Post by dv52 (Australia) on Aug 8, 2024 7:03:42 GMT
Jesper: hmm......... maybe it's your thick accent (mercifully, Aussies don't have an accent  ), but I don't understand your opening question, alas! Maybe you are asking how OBD11 knows what model/Make car the dongle is plugged into and therefore which database to load into the tablet/mobile-phone? If this is your question, then the answer is that OBD11 identifies the car via the VIN - which can be decoded to specify the key characteristics needed for a diagnostic session. If you don't know (my apology if you do), your mk7 has a MQB platform build - this means that the computerized control system on your car is divided into 6 x functional areas called "CAN buses". The arrangement for the entire CAN network forms a type of hub-and-spoke topology with the Gateway module at the center taking-on a role akin to the "Fat-controller" of Thomas the Tank Engine fame. Diagrammatically, the CAN network on a mk7 looks like this:
Note: All CAN bus systems have a transmission speed of 500 kBit/s.
"J533" in my diagram is the Gateway module - hopefully you can see that J533 is placed at the hub and the 6 x CAN hub spokes (the LIN data buses are a different form of communication system)
When you plug the OBD11 dongle into the car's OBD-port, you connect the dongle directly onto J533 and the OBD11 software invokes the CAN Diagnosis bus. The car's VIN resides in a number of different modules. I'm not certain which module the OBD11 software interrogates for the VIN - but I suspect that it takes the VIN from the Dashboard module which lives on the Convenience CAN bus.
If I've answered the wrong question, ask the question again - but using different words.
As for the use of machine-language on the control modules for this car, yes the element of resource efficiency is a big factor (I guess) - as it always is on ALL computerized networks. However, my sense is that it's not a question of age -my hunch is that these modules don't need compilers because they are purpose built to perform set tasks. So these modules have a very different architecture to the Arduino shields that I suspect you are used-to. I'm not sure how familiar you are with control-systems theory in general and closed-loop feedback systems in particular, but I wrote a short explanation of how I think these modules operate - HERE
As for your question about my MQB platform test-bench - yes, I first started building my "virtual mk7" in 2016 and since then the test-bench has gone through a number of different incarnations. To use an analogy, my test-bench is like "grandfather's axe" - I've replaced the head and the handle multiple times!! My test-bench doesn't get much use these days - it's mostly used by local forum members who have an interest in learning about Leuchte-programming.
When I was an active participant on the VCDS forum (I no longer participate on the forum for ethical reasons), I started a forum thread about my project which you can read - HERE
Don
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Post by lykkedk on Aug 8, 2024 8:48:43 GMT
Hello...
You correctly answered my 1. question regarding what
happen when connecting first time.
I don't think it's my non native English, it's because my
question is probably so simple for you but not me; that said I know about your aussies language 😁 Cool enough.
Really your answers is perfect for me!
I don't really know anything about the MQB platform, but duo to my
work as a technician I know about the CAN system and how that can
be connected. If there are any pages or stuff for more indeep information
about the MQB and the rest of the controller, please tell where to find.
I will dig more into this, now I just have to wait for the
dongle to arrive 😁
Ohhh... I have an IPhone and an Android tablet, I plan to use the tablet.
Will the backup OBD11 suggest to take, grab everything or should I check it afterwards (maybe this is easy when I see it?)
I mean I would be sure all things are safe before I hack to much.
I think you might be right that everything is coded at machine level, or
maybee assembler level, would not happen on new machines in 2024,
but they allready have the main program so they probably just change
part of the code... Well machine level is not for us, only hardcore programmers I think.
The CAN bus is not fast, but this is relatively to amount of information
it should catch during each cycle.
Thanks for the nice explanation Don.
Rgds; Jesper
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Post by lykkedk on Aug 8, 2024 8:51:32 GMT
Post edit :
I will look into the links you provided.
Jesper.
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Post by lykkedk on Aug 27, 2024 8:32:46 GMT
Hi all... I just want to tell how it all went out for a start. The OBD dongle I just recieved the other day, duo to it was somehow missing in the transit, dunno why but I got it now I did the following changes ::
* Changed threshold voltage from 7.8 to 12.1 to disable auto stop/start - confirmed working (I don't have to press the bottom any longer to disable stop/start, and the car just goes to around 950rpm. when "sailing" but engine stay's on). * Disabled door alarm (working with ignition and motor on). * Enabled show blower @ AC in auto mode.
For a start I used my Android tablet, but it's very buggy and glitchy, maybe it's the tablet? - I now use my Iphone witch is working very responsive and very nice indeed, no problems
I have 1 fault on my car :: The shop mounted a Trailer hitch/hook, whatever this is called  , I belive this is the fault? - Maybe someone here can identify this ?
OBDeleven vehicle history log
Date: 2024-08-27 09:15:15
VIN:
Car: Volkswagen
Year: 2019
Body type: D5 Hatchback
Engine: DACA kW ( hp) l
Mileage: 141038 km
---------------------------------------------------------------
19 Gateway
System description: GW MQB High
Software number: 3Q0907530AA
Software version: 4366
Hardware number: 3Q0907530C
Hardware version: 442
Faults:
U112400 - Data bus
Additional installations detected
static
Priority - 2
Malfunction frequency counter - 254
Unlearning counter - 84
km-Mileage - 140638 km
Supply voltage, terminal 30 - 12.0 V
Terminal 15 - On
Unknown ambient data -
date - 2024-08-06 00:11:29
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Post by dv52 (Australia) on Aug 27, 2024 23:32:17 GMT
lykkedk : Hmm.....not sure why this topic is posted on this thread (what is the connection to "guarantee period"?)
Anthow, yes - I suspect that you are correct about the new trailer module being the cause of the error - but posting-up a snippet of the SCAN report is of little value in understanding this problem! If you look at the CAN diagram in my previous post, you will see the module labelled J533 at the center of the CAN network. J533= Gateway module in OBD11 speak and J533 is the master module that controls all CAN communications. So, if the "shop mounted a Trailer hitch/hook", the mechanic likely installed a new trailer module onto the car's CAN network. Adding a new module to a car is more than just physically connecting the device - it also requires that the Gateway module is told to start talking to the new module. This is a module registration process which requires adding the identity of the new module to something called the Gateway Installation List (GIL). I suspect that "the shop" might have forgotten to update the GIL - but I'm guessing and I'm not sure that this is the only coding error with this project!
You will find my instructions regarding how to add a new module into the GIL using iOS version OBD11 software HERE
However, I suggest that you provide a full UNEDITED copy of the CSAN report for this car in a new post (as an attachment) so we can see the complete picture of all the modules in this car
Don
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Post by lykkedk on Aug 28, 2024 3:19:45 GMT
Hi Don...
You are absolutely right that I should open up a new thread.
I will attach a full scan as you also suggest, when I do later.
I'm actually very happy that all the stuff I changed is working
as expected.
Jesper.
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), but I don't understand your opening question, alas!
, I belive this is the fault? - Maybe someone here can identify this ?