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Post by 0lacetti on Sept 26, 2023 16:13:14 GMT
If possible, reset screenshots with Obdeleven errors in all blocks where there are errors.
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Post by chriz1 on Sept 26, 2023 17:36:17 GMT
Can't see how that's even possible
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Post by dv52 (Australia) on Sept 27, 2023 5:29:04 GMT
Josh: Hi
First: I know absolutely nothing about the disabilities listed in your post -but I assume that they don’t amplify your susceptibility to the car problems listed.
So, you clearly have an intimate understanding of this car - but for those of us reading your words, there are many unknowns.
An analysis of this matter really starts with posting-up a complete (meaning not edited) SCAN of this car - with OBD11, of course! This tells us how the car is built as well as the DNA of the CAN network. If the car has errors, it is very helpful if the SCAN includes the associated Freeze-frame data that accompanies these errors!
Don
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Post by chriz1 on Sept 27, 2023 13:26:44 GMT
Until you get the control units read with vag compatible software you can forget what codes they have shown, they will only show engine fault codes if your lucky..
Obd11 or Vcds is your best shout.
If you have no DCC then there is no communication to your suspension just level sensors for headlight aim it certainly can't adjust your suspension like you describe in fact no control unit can ! Without DCC you probably have a physical problem with your suspension somewhere.
You could try an alignment / tyres check see if that flags any issues perhaps the steering angle sensor needs calibrating both will cause bad handling
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Post by dv52 (Australia) on Sept 27, 2023 21:47:38 GMT
Josh: hmmm.........again, without intending any offense and notwithstanding generalities like the notion "hack" (I don't know what this means in this case) - diagnostics starts with specific and precise information!! Without this data, you as the owner of this car are relying on perceptions and we as forum colleagues are largely blind in our efforts to help. I agree with chriz1 about VCDS and OBD11 - however if you intend to pursue this matter on this forum, it would be proper to purchase the latter device. Ross-Tech has its-own forum if you elect to purchase the other diagnostic device. So it's entirely your decision - but once more, specific data is needed to progress your wants Are the posters thus far saying that an OBD11 scanner should be purchased with a pro pack and then a scan done? ....................Is the pro subscription the best option? Yes is the answer to the first question If it's your intention to fix stuff, a PRO account is necessary. If you just want to understand what's happening to this car (i.e. fault identification), the basic account is all that's required.
It's also possible to purchase the Basic account in the first instance and to later translate to a PRO account once your know the depth of the repair task (if you deem that the fix stage of this exercise is doable as DIY)
The hacking destroying what little quality of life there is and it really shouldn't be this difficult to return the car to its original settings. Several questions. Can anyone advise if the Golf mk8 Gtd's suspension is controlled by the central electrics ecu or does it have one for suspension? It doesn't have dcc but that has no bearing on the hack's effects. ECUS and sensors still control and communicate with moving parts (hardware). Again - don't understand the word "hack" (it's used lots in this thread), but as a general response - when coding changes are made to modules - the new value overwrites the old value and the old value is lost. Because the old value is lost -good diagnostic devices keep their own precise records of ALL changes that are made (including the old value). VCDS change records are held locally in the laptop that is used to run the Ross-Tech software. OBD11 keeps change records against the user account on VOLTAS's central servers in Lithuania (in History option).
So if changes ("hacks"?) were made to this car in the past - then there will be no actual change records held in the modules themselves!
This said - VAG holds a complete copy of the original factory settings for every MQB/MQB-evo platform car in it's central servers (it's called FAZIT). However access to this database is restricted to registered agents only (i.e. Dealers)
Also, is a complete re-installation of all control units possible with the obd11 scanner and pro subscription? The hack is most definitely affecting ride and handling. Since it was activated the car shudders, wallows, bottoms out and has poor body control. Plus, the other hack increases noise through pedals and steering and reduces mpg by 10-20. Neither VCDS, or OBD11 is able to undertake a "complete re-installation" back to factory settings. VCDS does have a "Restore" facility that will automatically revert changes back to an earlier state - but the user must have created a file of the original module settings BEFORE the changes were made.
Both devices basically can change coding values in modules in a one-at-a-time fashion and the user must know the original value when making the coding change!
The severe disabilities don't amplify the effects of the hack and it's not exaggerated. Good!! Could someone guide me on how to reinstall all control units/completely reinstall the central electrics and/or suspension ecu? There are several unknowns here which is why it's difficult to pose questions. As already indicated "suspension ecu" is ONLY installed if this car is factory fitted with DCC. If the suspension is "floppy" on a non-DCC vehicle, the problem will likely be physical (i.e. not a coding matter). |
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Post by dv52 (Australia) on Sept 28, 2023 22:46:07 GMT
Josh: I'm ALWAYS prepared to help others on this forum (and I have been doing so with greater and less success for a very long time) - but I can ONLY respond to technical matters related to VAG vehicles and to discussions specifically involving OBD11
I know absolutely nothing about issues related to "hacks" and "anti-disability vendetta" and "some kind of dark web radio frequency device" to alter several canbus". So, if you want to proceed - let's focus the difficult task of my remote understanding of what's happened to this car by sticking to stuff about which I have some knowledge - please!
And again, it really isn't possible to pursue the matters in your thread without the evidence of ACTUAL data - meaning the information in a SCAN!
With this caveat - my response (to the technical questions in your post) are as follows:
Would it be ok to arrange a whatever call with you dv52? Writing lengthy posts is often very distressing, with the disabilities inducing tremor and nausea. Alas - I'm not on any social media by choice. If a complete reset was done using ubd11 what stage would the control units be reverted back to? If the original values are needed where can they be obtained? I will likely purchase ubd11. As I have already said, neither OBD11 or VCDS can do "a complete reset" on this car. It's not helpful pursuing this aspect of your line of inquiry because it just ain't possible, alas!
Again as I've already said, Dealers can use FAZIT to take the car's coding back to factory setting - but this option is beyond this forum
Can you advise how many scans/freeze frames can be recorded without the pro. subscription and would it be necessary? OBD11 can access whatever fault information is recorded in module error memory and it can do this as many times as the user wants! Freeze-frame data is recorded with each fault depending on the nature of a fault. If the circumstances are correct and Freeze-frame data is resident in the module fault memory - OBD11 can read this information as many times as the user wants (but only if the user hasn't previously cleared the fault data).
SCANs can be done as many times as the user wants
If the ubd11 scan shows control unit faults connected to the ride/handling problems how can they then be rectified? Except for a few very rare occasions - yes! Of course this answer says nothing about the complexity of rectifying faults - which ranges from very easy to very difficult!
However and as has been said multiple times in this thread, the chance that "scan shows control unit faults connected to the ride/handling problems" on a non-DCC vehicle is very close to zero!!
To clear the problems would one or several new control units be the best option or simply completely reinstalling all control units - the problems may be connected to a control unit that doesn't flag anything? Depends entirely on the nature of the fault. OBD-11 standards (as distinct from OBD11 devices) are now quite mature - so the protocol will capture most faults. But I guess there must-be some faults that may not be detected! Though this mk8 gtd doesn't have dcc control units and sensors still communicate with its suspension. The setting/mode activated by the hacker is affecting the suspension's rebound, compression and control. Because of the hack it bottoms out, is poorly controlled, shudders over bumps and undulations. It does have stability problems because the hack has slackened the dampers. It is happening, possible and not imagined. Having researched steering angle sensor problems, it doesn't seem that would affect body control and damper behaviour? Could the hack have affected that as well though? Again, I still don't/can't understand your use of the word "hack" in this case! Let's focus on what can be actually established as fact once you post-up a SCAN with an OBD11 tool (or if you go the VCDS route - post a copy of your SCAN on the Ross-Tech forum)
Steering angle and vehicle suspension are entirely different matters!
If the remote hack is affecting handling and ride so significantly it must logically be because of a modified control unit or sensor. There's a central electrics unit on golf 8 but are there others you're aware of that would affect ride and handling? Once more, I can't comment on "remote hack affecting handling and ride so significantly". The role of the central electrics module is quite specific - it's generally related to the electrical part of customer convenience. I guess that in a very round-about way there could be a a remote connection between this module and "ride and handling" on a non-DCC vehicle. But to repeat my response above- if there is such a possibility, it has to be very, very subtle. In the world of complete probabilities - this possibility on a non-DCC car has to be infinitesimally small!!
Once again - my suggestion is that pursuing a coding solution to "ride and handling" problems on a non-DCC car isn't a wise diagnostic approach. And again, I suggest that you suspend any pre-determined fault causes until you have the evidence of a SCAN report
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Post by dv52 (Australia) on Sept 29, 2023 22:08:06 GMT
Josh: There are only 2 x questions in you last post that I can answer - maybe someone else can address your other issues Are there any guidelines I can follow for the scan and reset? I.e. restoring each control unit back to its original state if the data isn't available? Again, OBD11 (and VCDS) won't "restore each control unit back to it's original state" - as an automated process! What will be needed is a one-at-a-time reversion of individual coding values. The difficult part of this process will be identifying which of the thousands of possible coding parameters were changed!! I don't have a database of the factory settings on your car - so I can't help with the identification phase of which coding values were altered! IMO - the video below is a good introduction for new-bee users of OBD11
.......there are the two chassis fault codes shared in a previous post that flagged when using the veepack obd2 with another ob2 app. - confirmed C0300 and pending C0700 hmm..........I have no experience with "veepack obd2" and I would prefer that the 2 x DTCs in your post were confirmed in an OBD11 SCAN.
I'm not sure, but in linking these two Diagnostic Trouble Codes (DTCs) to the term "chassis fault codes" - I assume that "veepack" refers to "chassis" as being the vehicle build platform (i.e. MQB-evo build platform in this case), rather than relating the suspension system
The DTCs are as follows:
- C0700 is a Fuel Rail Pressure Sensor Circuit Malfunction
- C0300 is a problem with a rear speed sensor - possibly in one of the rear wheels (these speed sensors are connected to the Brake Module)
It's difficult to see how either of these DTCs relate to vehicle suspension ??
Again, I'm really not sure about "veepack obd2" !!
Don
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Post by ch47av8r on Sept 29, 2023 22:12:45 GMT
Patience of a saint.
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Post by jsr1978 on Oct 11, 2023 15:40:48 GMT
Hi, The OBDeleven scanner with pro pack arrived and a scan was done. Attached are screenshots of the scans. Though I'm passionate and reasonably knowledgeable about cars the process is a minefield. Navigating through and understanding what could or couldn't be responsible for the ride and handling woes is more difficult still because of the severe disabilities. Please note that they don't cause misperceptions or misunderstandings and nothing is exaggerated. As the other two screenshots show there are tick boxes for 'can' and other related areas within one of the control modules. Though no fault codes have flagged for them could remote 'hack' adaptations in these areas be responsible for the ride and handling issues? Steering assistance, structure borne sound, central electrics, multi-function module, gateway and engine must be sections that the problems are in? Hard resetting all modules is an option and surely worth doing? Would that revert the units back to their original values thus wiping the affects of the hack. And is this possible without changing the mileage and 'time to next service' indicator. Surely if 'hard reset' is an option the app. will store and default the car back to what values it should have? It wouldn't be left in a state of dysfunctional limbo. Thank you in advance and all help is much appreciated. Josh Within Central           |
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Post by dv52 (Australia) on Oct 12, 2023 0:08:40 GMT
Josh: you are back!!!!!!!!!! It's very difficult to make sense of your SCAN via a number of separate screenshots (especially on a mk8 - which has a MQB evo platform build). It looks like you are using the Android version software of OBD11.
The better way to post-up a SCAN report is to first digitize the information into an email that you can then send to yourself. When you receive the email - attach the file into a post on the forum.
Here are the steps for the process:
Maybe amend your last post by removing the SCAN screenshots and appending the email attachment
You appear to persist with the "hack" hypothesis regarding the "ride" and "suspension" - however, a quick perusal of your screenshots doesn't show any evidence supporting this hypothesis!
From the words in your past posts - I understand that my observation is the same as other folk/businesses that have already looked at this car. The pattern of confirmation in the consistency of this same finding amongst separate (and presumably, independent) investigations must surely speak volumes as to the veracity of your hypothesis.
Of course, you are free to persist with the investigation - but a question that is worth asking (for my edification if for no other reason) is: what sort of evidence would be needed to debunk the "hack" hypothesis in your mind?
I don't intend any offense in asking my question - I simply suggest that it's worth both you and the forum understanding at what point diagnostic information could dispel your firm belief that this car was hacked?
If the answer to my question is that you are ONLY seeking positive evidence to support the "hack" hypothesis, then again with no offense intended - it would be helpful to articulate this objective so ALL forum members reading this thread understood!
I won't respond to the other points in your last post given that I've already addressed these matters in my previous replies. Other forum members may want to add their comments, of course.
Don
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brkica
Full Member
Rvc
Posts: 168
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Post by brkica on Oct 12, 2023 13:09:06 GMT
Hi jsr1978, I do not see any evidence of malitious CANBUS changes. If there were some that affect handling and driving, you would see DTCs in 01, 02, 09 and A5. Reflashing an unit and uploading a dataset takes skill and access to ODIS which a hacker can not obtain - these tools are dealer approved only and are strictly controlled. Additionally, flashing takes a long time and needs a VAS tester to be physically connected to the OBD port, it is not possible to do it remotely. Also, during flashing the car needs to be connected to a charger, I don't think somebody would go these lengths just to screw you up. That said, you certainly have issues with power management in the car. Several modules report DTCs linked to low battery. Please check in a service center whether the battery is healthy and if your battery module and alternator work properly. A low battery can cause issues you are describing, because if the voltage is too low, the DSG transmission solenoid valves won't operate properly and the car will shift and handle very badly. Additionally, there is an issue with your Park assist module. I think it can be solved by reflashing the software at a dealer center, othervise the module must be exchanged. All other modules have very common errors (Antenna module disconnection, Validation timeout etc). Even I have them. They are completely normal and safe to ignore. Hope that helps, A |
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Post by dv52 (Australia) on Oct 12, 2023 20:56:36 GMT
After the scan an email of the codes was sent in the format attached above dv but it was in the body text of an email. How can that be attached to a post here? Josh: There are 2 x ways that immediately come to mind and they both start by copying the text of the scan results to the clipboard. Then either paste the text into a new post, or open an App like Notebook, or Wordpad, or MS Word (office) and dump the clipboard contents into the App. Save the document somewhere than use Add Attachment (top right-side of the forum screen)
Don
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Post by newty on Oct 13, 2023 19:44:35 GMT
From a solely technical perspective:
*The parking aid module is marked faulty. As this control unit is requesting the maneuver braking, there is a small chance that breaking events are caused by it
-> Have it checked and probably replaced
*The dampers/suspension of this car have no electrical connection and are an solely mechanical system
*There is no chance that codings/software have been altered wirelessly. Everything has to run through the OBD-Port. For writing access, you will even need to pop up the hood.
-> Codings can be restored at VW via SVM procedures
*Software: All software is signed by VW. No exceptions. Altering it and uploading it will render the affected control units entirely defective and non responding. There is no exception or possibility to circumvent this. The signing process is cruel and complicated. Even development software running on development hardware needs to be signed from a special party at VW. Also, uploading software via the OBD Port (the only possibility) takes at least some minutes with ignition on and the Motor off. Also, while doing this, all warning lights of the car will flash. This cannot be done unnoticed.
*"Faults" is a wrong name for the "Event Memory" of the car. Despite the static error in the parking I see nothing strange here. Bus and Secure Communication Errors occur from time to time in Golf 8, are logged and healed shortly after
So: Have the parking module checked. All the best!
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brkica
Full Member
Rvc
Posts: 168
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Post by brkica on Oct 14, 2023 8:38:56 GMT
Hi, completely agree with newty. Agrees with my earlier post. But, as the coleague suggested, it is possible to restore original factory firmware, datasets and coding via ODIS software versioning management (SVM). If you insist that malitious coding changes affect your cars performance (even no evidence for this is present), you can take it to the dealer and request out-of-warranty reflashing. It will take a lot of money, several days to do it (flashing of OCU 75 alone takes in excess of 16h) but you will have piece of mind. OCU76 (PLA module) needs to be either reflashed or exchanged and your battery and NV management OCU as well. Other than that, your car is okay. |
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Post by newty on Oct 14, 2023 10:35:04 GMT
Reflashing of the OCU does not take hours - although it takes quite some time
Also, SVM does not normally flash control units. It reads out the software and hardware versions to match the database and find the correct datasets and coding, but thats it.
I would go for the approach of directly replacing the parking aid. It is accessible without any tools (at least in rhd vehicles) and replaced in minutes and rather cheap, so I would not bother to repair it.
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Post by dv52 (Australia) on Oct 14, 2023 21:05:04 GMT
newty: Hmm............ why replace the hex76 module??? Yes, it's a possible solution for B1B1706 error - but with a Malfunction frequency counter=1, maybe it's a tad premature decision until more investigation provides greater evidence that a new module is needed? At the very least OP could try clearing the error, or seeing if the Malfunction counter increases with subsequent ignition cycles- perhaps? Don
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Post by newty on Oct 15, 2023 12:04:02 GMT
It it a static error - the frequency counter stays at 1 when the error is always on. You cant clear static errors - even if it is possible, they will reappear in the next ignition cycle
I am also 95% sure that ODIS-S' suggestion is to replace it, as this indicates defective parts.
A 30 minute task involving a 150€ control unit, probably done under warranty seems ok for me.
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Post by newty on Oct 19, 2023 19:30:35 GMT
Josh, please understand the following:
* There is no way to alter control modules wirelessly. All devices which could tamper anything come wired, because there is no wireless interface in the car allowing this.
* Your car has no control unit controlling the suspension. It all springs and classic shock absorbers
* Resetting Control units without knowledge of the actual outcome is harmful. Most resets do not have any effect, others will bring the unit back to EOL mode, rendering the control unit unprogrammable and non working
Nobody here wants to do any harm to you. So please follow the leads given here to make sure the car is in shape:
Have that parking aid checked.
Also maybe have a look a the cars battery, there are several errors indicating a badly performing battery. This sadly is common at Golf 8s. I had mine also replaced after 18 months.
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Post by dv52 (Australia) on Oct 19, 2023 21:07:25 GMT
I too am unfamiliar with the remote devices used but know its possible and happening. Josh: I continue to be intrigued by your unswerving belief that the suspension on this car has been "remotely hacked" by a malevolent agent who is intent on doing harm! This despite ALL respondents to your questions advising that such a proposition is simply NOT possible on a car that has NO electrically controlled suspension facility. Without wanting to go-back into the technical reasoning why the alledged remote hack is impossible - can you put into simple words how you "know its possible and happening"? And in answering, please don't describe again that this car has poor handling characteristics - this is not the point of my question. This car may well have poor handling suspension -but because the suspension on this car is mechanical ONLY, OBD11 can't diagnose this problem. So, in answering my question -I'm specifically asking how you know with absolute certainty that the car was remotely hacked! Again for emphasis - it's the "remote hack" part of your conviction that interests me!
After jacking the car up and going through it with a fine tooth comb it was confirmed that there's no damage or indicative wear to the suspension hardware. On an extended drive the owner observed the poor body control, remote steering and shuddering over some undulations. OK - independent confirmation is good!! So, did "the owner" (I assume this was "the independent dealer" with "paragon customer care") explain that the suspension on this car was mechanical - meaning that it is not able to be remotely hacked? And did the paragon care of independent dealer extend to identifying a reason for said "poor body control............."? Earlier today I tried to hard reset each of the control modules - even those without fault codes. For some reason obdeleven doesn't complete the action. The app. button is pressed but no 'loading', 'processing' or 'complete' message is shown. On one of the control modules showing faults the app. reads 'function cannot be performed - incorrect diagnostic mode'. Firstly how does one switch it to the 'correct mode'? I can only echo newty sage advice about using EOL diagnostic session to reset the modules on this car. I suggest that you search this forum for the experience of other unsuspecting users that have foolishly gone this route. Of course ultimately it's entirely your prerogative to proceed as you want! Within each control module there's also an 'advanced identification' section. In that there are multiple boxes that can be ticked which correspond to various functions of the control unit. Though I can 'select all' and did there's no option to do anything further like reset them. Can someone explain what can be done when the boxes are ticked as it isn't apparent. hmm....... the "advanced identification section" is just that! Meaning that this part of the module's function is read-only - it will display various module parameters as held within the database as a memory dump. "Advanced Information" is NOT write-able - there's nothing in this part of the module that you can change, or reset, or modify -again, it's read-only !! |
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Post by dv52 (Australia) on Oct 19, 2023 21:12:52 GMT
Thirsty : I desperately need your help - please. Just recently, the forum has started to display a Petrolhead Profile at the bottom of our responses. Can you explain what this rating is intended to convey?
Don
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Post by whataboutthis on Oct 19, 2023 22:25:15 GMT
And I just liked one of your posts (and I like them all) and your upvoted went up by one so its a like counter
I did an up karma that did not seem to do anything to your scores.
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Post by Thirsty on Oct 20, 2023 18:01:10 GMT
OT: The Petrolhead Profile section is part of the Accepted Post Guru Edition forum plugin  Plugin description: This plugin allows a user to create a thread and then 'accept' by pressing a button on that post. That post will then have a banner saying it is the 'Accepted Post' and a copy of the post will be included in the threads first post. The accepted answer can be rejected at any time in case a better answer is posted. Users can up-vote an answer by liking the post. The author of the post will have their 'Guru' total increased by 1. If a post is selected as the 'Accepted Answer' , the authors 'Guru' total will be increased by 10. If a user has guru points, their guru profile will appear below their posts. Once a post is accepted, that thread will have a [Solved] next to it in that boards thread list. |
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Post by dv52 (Australia) on Oct 20, 2023 21:08:38 GMT
Thirsty and whataboutthis Again, my thanks for the response. Thirsty : I think that I understand the use of the Petrolhead plug-in - but in thinking further about your PM reply, I'm still puzzled as to its intended purpose given that this particular Proforum already has the Karma ranking. Whist I admit that my intellect has been badly affected by the millions of brain cells that I've destroyed because of my fondness for single malt - nevertheless, it seems to me that the two facilities have the same objective (personally, I would prefer that both were removed from my profile) Don
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