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Post by jerry999 on Aug 12, 2023 17:45:54 GMT
Hi everyone, I'm looking for some help/guidance with my 2017 Audi A3 e-tron... The car had been in an acident but is now looking in good shape. The only issue is no drive. I can select D and R and the electric traction motor trys to move the car but there is no motion. 02 Transmission System description: GSG DQ400E Software number: 0DD300046 Software version: 1604 Hardware number: 0DD927770C Hardware version: H32 Faults: P086700 - Transmission Fluid Pressure static Priority - 0 Malfunction frequency counter - 4 Unlearning counter - 255 km-Mileage - 69048 km Engine speed - 0.00 1/min Engine torque - 0 Nm Vehicle speed - 0 km/h Control module temperature - 22 °C CURRENT pressure - -10.0 bar Clutch, primary stat - Neutral Selected gear - GANG_R Driving position - P Accelerator position - 14.9 % DTC memory status - 303 date - 2023-08-12 11:18:01
It looks like the fluid pump in the mechatronics is not running and creating the required pressure. My Golf has a test option 'Function test auxiliary hydraulic pump for transmission oil' and if I run this I can hear the motor. On the Audi this test option is not listed? Has anyone had experience of this pump/motor failing in a DQ400 gearbox or knows of a way to test it?
I find it odd that this has failed now when the last motion of the car was to hit something solid so it must have been working at that very moment! Any good methods of reseting the gearbox? Any suggestions welcome as I'd like to get this car moving. Thanks Jerry.
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Post by dv52 (Australia) on Aug 12, 2023 22:45:15 GMT
jerry999 : Hi With absolutely NO offense intended - are you sure? Whilst "Function test auxiliary hydraulic pump for transmission oil" may not be in your Audi -Live Data for the hex02 module should list lots of test options for the Hydraulic Pump (which is called V401) - like
- Pressure Supply, act. press
- Pressure Supply, act. current
There are many other tests available
So- this car has a 0DD 6-speed transmission. The hyraulic pump is part of the Mechatronics unit - see below
I've thieved the picture from VAG SSP 538 – The Dual Clutch Gearbox 0DD. I suggest that you read the document - from the net
Don
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Post by jerry999 on Aug 13, 2023 9:48:23 GMT
Hi Don, No, not 100% sure which is why I'm asking. I really don't want to remove the mechatronics unless I really have to.
I've now read VAG SSP 538 which was extremely useful - thanks for that. The live data does indeed list lots of good information which is where I looked after seeing error P0867. It would be great if I could export the live data and post it here - is this possible? However, I see these values of concern - Error status of pump motor activation, Failure status = 4, Faliure status cumulated = 4 (I found a VCDS scan on the web that shows these as 0) Pressure supply commanded speed 4000 RPM, Pressure supply actual speed 0 RPM Pressure supply actual pressure 0.31 bar
Oil pressure actual value 0.00 bar I think I could do with a module 02 live data OBDEleven output file from a working A3 e-tron to compare... Thanks Jerry
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Post by jerry999 on Aug 13, 2023 16:57:21 GMT
Spent more time on this today...
Interestingly, the first occurance of P0867 was seconds after the crash -
02 Transmission System description: GSG DQ400E Software number: 0DD300046 Software version: 1604 Hardware number: 0DD927770C Hardware version: H32 Faults: P086700 - Transmission Fluid Pressure static Priority - 0 Malfunction frequency counter - 41 Unlearning counter - 255 km-Mileage - 69049 km Engine speed - 0.00 1/min Engine torque - 0 Nm Vehicle speed - 0 km/h Control module temperature - 5 °C CURRENT pressure - -10.0 bar Clutch, primary stat - Neu Selected gear - GANG_R Driving position - P Accelerator position - 14.9 % DTC memory status - 303 date - 2023-02-09 09:17:12
15 Airbag System description: AirbagVW21 Software number: 5Q0959655BE Software version: 0336 Hardware number: 5Q0959655BE Hardware version: 005 Faults: B10391B - Igniter 2 for pedestrian protection Resistance too high static Priority - 2 Malfunction frequency counter - 1 Unlearning counter - 255 km-Mileage - 69049 km date - 2023-02-09 09:16:24 B10381B - Igniter 1 for pedestrian protection Resistance too high static Priority - 2 Malfunction frequency counter - 1 Unlearning counter - 255 km-Mileage - 69049 km date - 2023-02-09 09:16:24
At time it feels like the gearbox pump is running when feeling the outer case of the mechatronics...
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Post by dv52 (Australia) on Aug 13, 2023 21:18:01 GMT
Jerry: hmm......... yes I agree that the error is definitely related to the accident. The other interesting metric from the DTC freeze-frame data is the Malfunction frequency counter =41 in your latest SCAN snippet. This counter is a measure of the number of times that the same DTC is re-detected since first registered after each ignition cycle. Your latest SCAN snippet (which I assume was taken shortly after the accident) doesn't show the date of the SCAN - so I can't tell how many ignition cycles are reasonable - but 41 is a large number!!!
Sometimes parts of the drivetrain are deliberatly deactivared when the air-bag/igniters are deployed as a safety matter - I don't know if this is the case for the transmission module. I assume that the airbag module has no errors in your first SCAN snippet
It's important to acknowledge that data from a diagnostic device has its limitations. Its purpose is to identify the general area of the fault. Sometimes the DTC does identify the exact component that is misbehaving - but this is definitely NOT always the case.
This from the USA DOT.report
DTC P0867, sometimes indicated as P086700 is an OBD diagnostic trouble code indicating a generic fault with the vehicle powertrain (i.e. engine and gearbox). This code identifies an error with the onboard computer system or ancillary outputs causing transmission fluid pressure.
The DTC P0867 code means that there is a problem with the transmission fluid pressure. This could be caused by a number of things, such as a clogged filter, a leak in the system, or a problem with the pump.
I'm certainly NOT a mechatronics expert - but I suspect at some stage in your investigation, you will need to look closer at the unit
Don
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Post by jerry999 on Aug 14, 2023 8:58:08 GMT
The scan snippet is from 13th April (the day after I aquired the car). As far as I can tell it crashed on the 9th February.
Interesting, I didn't realise the Malfunction frequency counter was since ignition. Like you say 41 is a lot!
I did a scan yesterday and it does look like the number builds quite quickly after ignition on. I guess it's as the fluid pressure process starts as soon as driver's door is opened.
From SSP 538 - The motor starts and oil pressure is built up when you open the driver’s door.
02 Transmission System description: GSG DQ400E Software number: 0DD300046 Software version: 1604 Hardware number: 0DD927770C Hardware version: H32 Faults: P086700 - Transmission Fluid Pressure static Priority - 0 Malfunction frequency counter - 3 Unlearning counter - 255 km-Mileage - 69048 km Engine speed - 0.00 1/min Engine torque - -8 Nm Vehicle speed - 0 km/h Control module temperature - 22 °C CURRENT pressure - -10.0 bar Clutch, primary stat - Neutral Selected gear - GANG_1 Driving position - D Accelerator position - 14.9 % DTC memory status - 349 date - 2023-08-12 11:30:12 P086700 - Transmission Fluid Pressure static Priority - 0 Malfunction frequency counter - 19 Unlearning counter - 255 km-Mileage - 69048 km Engine speed - 0.00 1/min Engine torque - 0 Nm Vehicle speed - 0 km/h Control module temperature - 22 °C CURRENT pressure - -10.0 bar Clutch, primary stat - Neutral Selected gear - GANG_R Driving position - P Accelerator position - 14.9 % DTC memory status - 303 date - 2023-08-12 11:18:01
Further investigation required...
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Post by jerry999 on Aug 22, 2023 17:29:57 GMT
My further investigations...
As far as I can tell the hydraulic pump is running as I can feel/hear it. It doesn't start when the driver's door is opened but when the start/stop button is pressed - I guess the SSP 538 is misleading on this point
As a next step I would really like to completely reset the mechatronics unit and have it restart as if it were new. Does anyone know of a process/procedure to do this?
I have tried running 'Basic setting of transmission' but this fails - something like, exited due to safety reasons (is there a log that shows what steps were completed and which step it failed on?).
At this stage I'm happy to try any suggestions to fix this gearbox before looking for a new mechatronics unit...
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Post by dv52 (Australia) on Aug 22, 2023 23:37:29 GMT
Jerry: yes, really odd problem.
You haven't posted-up a complete scan - so I assume that there are no other faults on this car that could be implicated in the transmission fluid problem - particularly errors on the powertrain CAN bus because this is a powertrain error!!! These are the powertrain modules on a MQB platform car - taken from Golf mk7
Note that the front belt tensioner modules are included in this CAN bus (relevant to a collision)
Also, I'm surprised by this observation "It doesn't start when the driver's door is opened but when the start/stop button is pressed - I guess the SSP 538 is misleading on this point"
AFAIK - the only connection between SS and a DSG gearbox is the requirement to not press the brake pedal and the requirement for the front wheels to not be angled too sharply. (read the SS description in the manual)
Don
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Post by jerry999 on Aug 26, 2023 17:09:02 GMT
Thanks Don, all very useful information as usual.
I now seem to have many U1122/U1123 errors - I have had some of these before but managed to clear them but now they are back. I need to check the CAN Bus and module diagrams to see if these could be related to the DSG fault...
Here is a full scan from today (the Air Con error is real and can be ignored).
OBDeleven vehicle history log Date: 2023-08-26 16:35:07
VIN: WAUZZZ8V0JA0xxxxx Car: Year: 2018 Body type: UNKNOWN Engine: CUKB kW ( hp) l Mileage: 69048 km
--------------------------------------------------------------- Full scan Control Units: 32 Fault count: 35 Control Units: 01 Engine System description: R4 1.4l TFS Software number: 04E906023AR Software version: 3440 Hardware number: 04E907309F Hardware version: H22 Faults: No trouble codes found
16 Steering Column System description: Lenks. Modul Software number: 8V0953521KF Software version: 0140 Hardware number: 5Q0953549E Hardware version: 003 Faults: No trouble codes found
09 Central Electrics System description: BCM MQBAB M+ Software number: 5Q0937084CP Software version: 0253 Hardware number: 5Q0937084CF Hardware version: H36 Faults: No trouble codes found
17 Dashboard System description: KOMBI Software number: 8V0920973S Software version: 0310 Hardware number: 8V0920973S Hardware version: H01 Faults: No trouble codes found
19 Gateway System description: GW MQB EV Software number: 3Q0907530H Software version: 6305 Hardware number: 3Q0907530D Hardware version: 618 Faults: No trouble codes found
23 Brake Boost System description: EBKV Software number: 5QE909059G Software version: 0211 Hardware number: 5QE909059B Hardware version: H14 Faults: No trouble codes found
29 Light Control Left System description: LCM_MQB Software number: 8S0907397D Software version: 0017 Hardware number: 8S0907397D Hardware version: H06 Faults: No trouble codes found
2B Steering Column Lock System description: ELV-MQBA Software number: 5Q0905861A Software version: 0120 Hardware number: 5Q0905861A Hardware version: H01 Faults: No trouble codes found
39 Light Control Right System description: LCM_MQB Software number: 8S0907397D Software version: 0017 Hardware number: 8S0907397D Hardware version: H06 Faults: No trouble codes found
42 Driver Door System description: TSG FS Software number: 5Q0959593E Software version: 0041 Hardware number: 5Q0959593B Hardware version: 020 Faults: No trouble codes found
4B Multifunction Module System description: FCM MQB Low Software number: 3Q0907338 Software version: 0286 Hardware number: 3Q0907338 Hardware version: 002 Faults: No trouble codes found
51 Drive Motor System description: LE Gen 3.3 Software number: 5G0907080E Software version: 1032 Hardware number: 5G0907080E Hardware version: H11 Faults: No trouble codes found
5F Multimedia System description: MU-P-LND-EU Software number: 8V1035035B Software version: 1106 Hardware number: 8V1035035 Hardware version: 054 Faults: No trouble codes found
52 Passenger Door System description: TSG BFS Software number: 5Q0959592E Software version: 0041 Hardware number: 5Q0959592B Hardware version: 020 Faults: No trouble codes found
75 Telematics System description: OCULowMQBEU Software number: 5QE035284C Software version: 0717 Hardware number: 5QE035284C Hardware version: 012 Faults: No trouble codes found
8C Battery Energy Module System description: BECM Software number: 5Q0915182D Software version: 0921 Hardware number: 5Q0915182C Hardware version: H05 Faults: No trouble codes found
BB Rear Left Door System description: TSG HFS Software number: 5Q0959595E Software version: 0041 Hardware number: 5Q0959595B Hardware version: 020 Faults: No trouble codes found
B7 Start System Interface System description: VWKESSYMQB Software number: 5Q0959435C Software version: 0803 Hardware number: 5Q0959435 Hardware version: 021 Faults: No trouble codes found
BC Rear Right Door System description: TSG HBFS Software number: 5Q0959595E Software version: 0041 Hardware number: 5Q0959595B Hardware version: 020 Faults: No trouble codes found
C6 Battery Charger System description: OBC KOSTAL Software number: 5QE915682AF Software version: 4013 Hardware number: 5QE915682AF Hardware version: H40 Faults: No trouble codes found
D6 LED Module Left System description: LED1L Software number: 7PP941572AC Software version: 0008 Hardware number: 7PP941572A Hardware version: H09 Faults: No trouble codes found
D7 LED Module Right System description: LED1R Software number: 7PP941572AC Software version: 0008 Hardware number: 7PP941572A Hardware version: H09 Faults: No trouble codes found
03 Brakes System description: ESC Software number: 5Q0614517BL Software version: 0855 Hardware number: 5Q0614517AH Hardware version: H62 Faults: B116816 - Steering angle sensor Voltage too low static Priority - 2 Malfunction frequency counter - 1 Unlearning counter - 255 km-Mileage - 69048 km Extended Freeze Frames - 2802001832000000B9000000000000005203800101001000 date - 2023-08-26 16:29:48 C114602 - Tire pressure monitoring display Signal error static Priority - 3 Malfunction frequency counter - 1 Unlearning counter - 255 km-Mileage - 69048 km Extended Freeze Frames - 2802001832000000BA000000000000005203800101001000 date - 2023-08-26 16:30:01 C114602 - Tire pressure monitoring display Signal error static Priority - 3 Malfunction frequency counter - 1 Unlearning counter - 255 km-Mileage - 69048 km Extended Freeze Frames - 2802001832000000BA000000000000005203800101001000 date - 2023-08-26 16:30:01
08 Air Conditioning System description: AC Automat Software number: 8V0820043AQ Software version: 0120 Hardware number: 8V0820043R Hardware version: H03 Faults: B10ABF0 - Refrigerant pressure Lower limit not reached static Priority - 2 Malfunction frequency counter - 1 Unlearning counter - 255 km-Mileage - 69048 km date - 2023-08-26 16:29:52
15 Airbag System description: AirbagVW21 Software number: 5Q0959655BE Software version: 0336 Hardware number: 5Q0959655BE Hardware version: 005 Faults: U112300 - Databus error value received static Priority - 6 Malfunction frequency counter - 1 Unlearning counter - 88 km-Mileage - 69048 km date - 2023-08-26 16:29:52
76 Parking Assistant System description: PDC 8 Kanal Software number: 5QA919294B Software version: 0044 Hardware number: 5QA919294 Hardware version: H07 Faults: U112300 - Databus error value received static Priority - 6 Malfunction frequency counter - 1 Unlearning counter - 88 km-Mileage - 69048 km date - 2023-08-26 16:30:00
13 Adaptive Cruise Control System description: ACC BOSCH MQB Software number: 5Q0907572G Software version: 0571 Hardware number: 5Q0907572G Hardware version: H10 Faults: U112200 - Databus implausible message static Priority - 6 Malfunction frequency counter - 1 Unlearning counter - 88 km-Mileage - 69048 km Dynamic environmental data - 028D590285821011000010120000102E07 date - 2023-08-26 16:29:50 U112300 - Databus error value received static Priority - 4 Malfunction frequency counter - 2 Unlearning counter - 88 km-Mileage - 69048 km Dynamic environmental data - 028D590285821011000010120000102E07 date - 2023-08-26 16:29:50 U112300 - Databus error value received static Priority - 4 Malfunction frequency counter - 3 Unlearning counter - 88 km-Mileage - 69048 km Dynamic environmental data - 028D590285821011000010120000102E07 date - 2023-08-26 16:29:50 U112300 - Databus error value received static Priority - 6 Malfunction frequency counter - 1 Unlearning counter - 88 km-Mileage - 69048 km Dynamic environmental data - 028D590285821011000010120000102E07 date - 2023-08-26 16:29:51
3C Lane Change Assistant Right System description: MRR1Rear Software number: 3Q0907566F Software version: 0610 Hardware number: 3Q0907566 Hardware version: H21 Faults: U112200 - Databus implausible message static Priority - 4 Malfunction frequency counter - 1 Unlearning counter - 88 km-Mileage - 69048 km Dynamic environmental data - 028D6E0286FF22D200000288FF028581 date - 2023-08-26 16:29:54 U112300 - Databus error value received static Priority - 6 Malfunction frequency counter - 1 Unlearning counter - 88 km-Mileage - 69048 km Dynamic environmental data - 028D6E0286FF22D200000288FF028581 date - 2023-08-26 16:29:54
44 Steering Assistance System description: EPS_MQB_ZFLS Software number: 5Q0909144T Software version: 1072 Hardware number: 5Q0909144R Hardware version: 128 Faults: C10ACF0 - Steering End stops not learned static Priority - 6 Malfunction frequency counter - 1 km-Mileage - 69048 km Unlearning counter - 88 Motor status - 0 System status - Waiting for start request Supply voltage - 13.00 V Temperature - 33.0 °C KFC - 40 KFA - 3 Environmental conditions - 5F Rotorlagesensorspannung AMR Sinus - 1.649 V Rotorlagesensorspannung AMR Kosinus - 9.080 V Rotorlagesensorspannung AMR Sinus 2 - 1.649 V Rotorlagesensorspannung AMR Cosinus 2 - 5.783 V Rotorlagesensorspannung Hall 1 - 0.0 V Rotorlagesensorspannung Hall 2 - 0.0 V Aktueller Sinus-Offset für ASIC - 0.0 mV Aktueller Cosinus-Offset für ASIC - -0.2 mV aktuelle Sinusverstärkung für ASIC - 0.169 date - 2023-08-26 16:29:56 B1168F2 - Steering angle sensor no initialization static Priority - 1 Malfunction frequency counter - 1 km-Mileage - 69048 km Unlearning counter - 88 Motor status - 0 System status - Waiting for start request Supply voltage - 13.00 V Temperature - 33.0 °C KFC - 3F KFA - 93 Environmental conditions - 5F uAdSensI U1V2Filtered gdu16 - 1.20 V uAdSensI U5VFiltered xdu16 - 0.00000 V uioUdNotFilt xdu16 - 13.08 V uAdSensI SwitchedKl30 xdu16 - 13.09 V NoInitCause AsicSens - [0x12] ASC_CTRL_SAS_PERIOD_ERR - SASPERIOD content lost after last ignition off NoInitCause RackPos Rohwert - 180 RP VALCNTSAV - activated RP DIAGJOB - Not activated RP RPS - Not activated RP KMN RACKPOS SET - Not activated RP STARTUP - Not activated RP L2PLAUSI - Not activated RP INDEXPLAUSI - Not activated RP WHLSPDPLAUSI - Not activated RP RUKUCNTR - Not activated RP UNDERVOLT - Not activated RP CNTERR - activated date - 2023-08-26 16:29:56
02 Transmission System description: GSG DQ400E Software number: 0DD300046 Software version: 1604 Hardware number: 0DD927770C Hardware version: H32 Faults: P086700 - Transmission Fluid Pressure static Priority - 0 Malfunction frequency counter - 1 Unlearning counter - 255 km-Mileage - 69048 km Engine speed - 0.00 1/min Engine torque - 0 Nm Vehicle speed - 0 km/h Control module temperature - 24 °C CURRENT pressure - -10.0 bar Clutch, primary stat - Neu Selected gear - GANG_R Driving position - P Accelerator position - 14.9 % DTC memory status - 303 date - 2023-08-26 16:30:17 U041300 - Invalid Data Received From Battery Energy Control Module "B" Intermittent U04B500 - Invalid Data Received from Brake System Control Module "B" Intermittent 60354 - Intermittent 60357 - Intermittent 60358 - Intermittent 60356 - Intermittent 60359 - Intermittent 60360 - Intermittent 60363 - Intermittent 60365 - Intermittent 60362 - Intermittent 60364 - Intermittent 60355 - Intermittent 60366 - Intermittent 60361 - Intermittent 60368 - Intermittent 60367 - Intermittent
CF Lane Change Assistant Left System description: MRR1Rear Software number: 3Q0907590F Software version: 0610 Hardware number: 3Q0907590 Hardware version: H21 Faults: U112200 - Databus implausible message static Priority - 4 Malfunction frequency counter - 1 Unlearning counter - 88 km-Mileage - 69048 km Dynamic environmental data - 028D680286FF22D200000288FF028581 date - 2023-08-26 16:30:05
A5 Driver Assistance System description: MQB_B_MFK Software number: 3Q0980654H Software version: 0272 Hardware number: 3Q0980654A Hardware version: H08 Faults: U112300 - Databus error value received static Priority - 6 Malfunction frequency counter - 1 Unlearning counter - 88 km-Mileage - 69048 km Control module temperature - 50 °C Vehicle speed - 0.00 km/h Voltage terminal 15 - 13.0 V Outside air temperature - 21.0 °C System run time - 354.2 s Status of camera - operational Engine Running Info - 0 MID - 02E0 Software Info 1 - 0 Software Info 2 - 2 Software Info 3 - 7 Software Info 4 - 2 date - 2023-08-26 16:30:01 U112300 - Databus error value received static Priority - 6 Malfunction frequency counter - 1 Unlearning counter - 88 km-Mileage - 69048 km Control module temperature - 50 °C Vehicle speed - 0.00 km/h Voltage terminal 15 - 13.0 V Outside air temperature - 21.0 °C System run time - 354.2 s Status of camera - operational Engine Running Info - 0 MID - 02A9 Software Info 1 - 0 Software Info 2 - 2 Software Info 3 - 7 Software Info 4 - 2 date - 2023-08-26 16:30:01
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Post by dv52 (Australia) on Aug 26, 2023 21:50:17 GMT
Wow- this certainly is a fault-rich SCAN report. I'm not sure that these multiple errors can be addressed remotely via forum posts!!
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Post by jerry999 on Dec 31, 2023 17:03:01 GMT
I owe you guys some feedback now that the gearbox is finally fully functional... I removed the mechatronics unit. I then bench tested the pump motor (and pump). Note: it's a 3 phase 12v DC motor that pulls approx. 3amps. The tests were good and confirmed no issues with the motor or pump. Therefore, I went ahead and replaced the TCU with a second user one (this had to be cloned to the original due to CP issues). The mechatronics unit was refitted and I'm pleased to say that there have been no issues since. The motor RPM and pressure are as expected -
I've no idea what 'Oil Pressure Actual Value' is measuring as it's always 0 bar
Next question - Has anyone actually run a successful 'Basic Setting of Transmission' on an e-tron or GTE?
Mine alwys fails with 'Excited due to reasons of safety'.
Does anyone know how to find out which steps were run and which one failed or should I run some other procedure before 'Basic Setting of Transmission'. I'm guessing that the car should be 'Ready' and with foot on the brake but maybe someone could confirm this.
Cheers Jerry
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