"Oil temperature sensor 2" vs "engine oil temperature"

new

« Prev
1
Next »

evilhomura89
New Member

Posts: 5

"Oil temperature sensor 2" vs "engine oil temperature" Mar 7, 2023 10:18:56 GMT

Quote

Post by evilhomura89 on Mar 7, 2023 10:18:56 GMT

Does anyone know other than the G266 oil level and temperature sender (03F907660D / 03F907660E), which other sensor does the ECU obtain oil temperature from?

If you see the above screenshot from Obdeleven live data, there's a huge discrepany between "Oil temperature sensor 2" and "Engine oil temperature".
And I highly suspect "calculated oil temperature" is the same as "engine oil temperature".

I'm trying to figure out what went wrong as I suspect my "oil temperature sensor 2" might not be displaying the correct info.

Past experience for me is, there shouldn't be any big differences between them, at most 2-3 degrees.
In case you're wondering, this is the CHHB engine on the Mk7 GTI.

These are the parameters with their engineering codes taken from VCDS
IDE06391-ENG103698 Oil temperature sensor 2

IDE06392-ENG112991 oil temperature sensor 2: raw value

IDE00196, Engine oil temperature

IDE00495,Calculated oil temperature

dv52 (Australia)
Moderator

Posts: 6,064

"Oil temperature sensor 2" vs "engine oil temperature" Mar 7, 2023 21:33:56 GMT

Quote

Post by dv52 (Australia) on Mar 7, 2023 21:33:56 GMT

evilhomura89 : Hi and an excellent (and interesting) question!

Yes, I believe that you are correct - according to my information, the CHHB petrol engine only has the one physical oil temperature (G266)

My hunch (guess, really) is that reference to the words "raw value" in the sensor 2 reading means that this is an estimated number - probably the result of some type of mathematical algorithm internal to the ECU oil management system.

What's also interesting in the "raw value" number is the measurement units "V". Normally, I would expect that "V" means "Volts". Now, a reading of 65.5 Volts seems high for a vehicle sensor - but if it's a calculated number, it really doesn't matter (because it's a virtual reading)!

Again, my hunch is that the Celsius number for sensor 2 is the translated "V" value from the raw value number.

As for your specific statement "there shouldn't be any big differences between them, at most 2-3 degrees." - I suspect that you might be comparing apples with oranges (no offense intended)!!

Once again my guess is that the estimate sensor 2 reading isn't an actual temperature reading that can legitimately be compared with the Engine Oil Temperature reading. My hunch is that the sensor 2 reading is instead a control variable (of some type) - meant as either a threshold number that initiates a process (of some type), or meant as a reference number that contributes to the Calculated Oil Temperature reading - maybe.

I'm more than happy to be corrected, but the 2 x vital readings in your screenshot are Calculated Oil Temperature and Engine Oil Temperature. These are the correct comparison numbers - and for this engine the readings are good!!

Don

Last Edit: Mar 7, 2023 21:36:47 GMT by dv52 (Australia)

Please don't ask questions about car coding/repair via the forum "Message" function. The better place for such dialogue is in the forum proper. That way, the wider expertise of the entire forum community can be applied to solve your problem - thank you

evilhomura89
New Member

Posts: 5

"Oil temperature sensor 2" vs "engine oil temperature" Mar 8, 2023 1:36:29 GMT via mobile

Quote

Post by evilhomura89 on Mar 8, 2023 1:36:29 GMT

Hi Don,

Thanks for your inputs but based on what I've experienced this morning, I suspect the "oil temperature sensor 2" is the direct data stream obtained from the G266 sensor in the oil pan.
That's because during cold start this morning, I noticed that "engine oil temperature" is reading 60+ C while "oil temperature sensor 2" is reading around 28C.

At the same time, I've gotten similar feedback that substantiate my suspicion from the golfmk7 forum (thanks @scrllock) on this - www.golfmk7.com/forums/index.php?threads/do-our-cars-have-true-oil-temperature-sensors-calculated-vs-measured-oil-temp.391465/

"TOIL_SRV_INTL is reading the oil pan sensor."

Based on what is being shared there, TOIL_SRV_INTL refers to "IDE06391 oil temperature sensor 2".

Meanwhile, check out the description for TOIL (IDE00196 Engine oil temperature)

f(x)=(-2731.4+x)/10

Is this equation used to model/calculate the engine oil temperature?

While I was scouring for more info, I've an interesting post here as well regarding oil temperature - Post in thread 'DerHase's 2019 GTI Rabbit Edition: HPDE shenanigans' golfmk7.com/forums/index.php?threads/derhases-2019-gti-rabbit-edition-hpde-shenanigans.401435/post-7916493

Last Edit: Mar 8, 2023 2:35:56 GMT by evilhomura89

dv52 (Australia)
Moderator

Posts: 6,064

"Oil temperature sensor 2" vs "engine oil temperature" Mar 8, 2023 22:36:19 GMT

Quote

Post by dv52 (Australia) on Mar 8, 2023 22:36:19 GMT

OK - as I said, ALL of my response was sheer hypothesis - so "I'm more than happy to be corrected"!!!

Mar 8, 2023 1:36:29 GMT evilhomura89 said:

"TOIL_SRV_INTL is reading the oil pan sensor."

Based on what is being shared there, TOIL_SRV_INTL refers to "IDE06391 oil temperature sensor 2".

hmm....... as you will be aware, G266 lives in the "oil pan". So, I'm assuming from your words above that "TOIL_SRV_INTL" isn't related to these readings but rather, the readings come from a different sensor

If the advice from your link is correct (and I've no reason to suspect that it isn't correct)- then I very much doubt that "oil temperature sensor 2" is an actual "temperature sensor" in the normal understood meaning of the term. The basis for my claim is that I can't find in the VW material for a CHHB engine an actual 2nd temperature transducer in the sump pan. The only other "sensor" that lives in the sump pan for this engine is what VW calls "N428" which is the oil pressure control valve.

Below is the oil (sump)-pan parts diagram - I've indicated N428 for reference (G266 is item 2)

Now, of course, we will both agree that N428 is NOT a temperature transducer (it allows the ECU to determine the oil flow volume to the camshaft at any particular time). However, if N428 isn't involved in generating the sensor 2 number and if the number doesn't come from G266 - then what other device (in the oil-pan) could possibly provide this information?

OK, let's look at your table (below)

And in particular, lets look at TOIL_SRV_INTL_RAW. The table says "Phys. Limit = 0 to 65.535 (which in hexadecimal numbers = 0 to FFFF)".

Notice that on the screenshot in your original post Oil temperature sensor 2, raw value = 65.535 V!! Again, I'm not sure what "V" means - but clearly the reading on your car has reach the upper threshold value (hexFFFF)

Given that "Calculated Oil temperature" = "Engine Oil temperature" in your original screenshot - this suggests (to me, at least) that "sensor 2, raw value" is a proper number for a correctly operating system. My initial thought was that maybe the underlying transducer for "sensor 2 raw value" might be a binary switch of some type that has a simple ON/OFF state. However, since the table indicates that TOIL_SRV_INTL_RAW has a resolution =0.001, I'm tempted to believe that these readings are continuous.

So, my suggestion is that "sensor 2, raw" has a proper value at the upper threshold limit (being 65.535) whenever "Calculated Oil temperature" = "Engine Oil temperature" !!!

Mar 8, 2023 1:36:29 GMT evilhomura89 said:

check out the description for TOIL (IDE00196 Engine oil temperature)

f(x)=(-2731.4+x)/10

Is this equation used to model/calculate the engine oil temperature?

The short answer is YES, but I don't believe that the formula adds much value to your investigations!!

-2731.4/10=-273.14 This is a foundational number in temperature speak! It's the lowest possible temperature in °C on the Kelvin temperature scale.

So, the formula is a well established algorithm for different temperature scale conversions

0°K=-273.14 °C - this explains the fixed number in the formula.

From my perspective, the only value from the formula is that it tells us that the "x" reading is in degrees Kelvin (multiplied by 10) and the formula itself converts the "x" number into degrees Celsius - which are the temperature units shown in the OBD11 screens.

Again, more than happy to be corrected!!

Don

Last Edit: Mar 8, 2023 23:36:45 GMT by dv52 (Australia)

evilhomura89
New Member

Posts: 5

"Oil temperature sensor 2" vs "engine oil temperature" Mar 9, 2023 3:28:18 GMT via mobile

Quote

Post by evilhomura89 on Mar 9, 2023 3:28:18 GMT

I wished I had access to more info and I am in no position to correct anything. Just trying to share what I'm experiencing. Nonetheless,your feedback is really valuable for our learnings.

Set aside those technical details, the reason why I was looking into this earlier is because I was experiencing some weird temperature issue (oil & coolant) recently - reported oil temperature appeared lower than usual, cooling fan running for quite some time after engine shutting down. These has never happened before hence I was down the rabbit hole trying to investigate.

And it turns out that I have a faulty G62 coolant temperature sensor (079 919 523B/ 079 919 523J), located at the engine block. It was intermittent at first and finally it gave up yesterday. It was misreporting a higher temperature - and for that reason, the waterpump was operating at full cooling capacity which caused my oil temperature to remain cooler than usual. At the same time, the cooling fan were reacting towards the misreported temperature.

I personally suspect that the temperature data from G62 does contribute to the calculation of "engine oil temperature" & "calculated oil temperature" which is why it appeared normal (107°C) in my original screenshot even though "oil temperature sensor 2" was reporting 80ish C.

However that raw value of 65.535V is still something that I can't comprehend (only a VW engineer would know) and your deduction might be right on that.

Shoutbox

Please don't use the shoutbox for complex questions! For those questions please create a thread in the right subforum.

georgegianna: Recover Your Lost Coins with Paradox Recovery Wizard

I just wanted to express my heartfelt gratitude for your incredible help in recovering my lost funds. Your expertise and dedication have truly made a difference, and I’m so thankful for the support you’ Nov 15, 2024 19:31:32 GMT

derpandabear: Hi everyone, it's been two weeks since I've posted my question. I would greatly appreciate it if anyone can respond to my thread: forum.obdeleven.com/thread/28144/summertime-setting-mk8-golf-gti. Thanks and Best Regards! Nov 16, 2024 19:49:09 GMT

bmwg30lci: sveiki,noreciau gauti daugiau informacijos apie jusu produkcijos paskirti.ar imanoma pakeisti salone migtuku spalvas?pvz; pas bmw g30 lci tamsoje sviecia oranzine spalva o diena balta.as noreciau,kad visuomet butu tik baltas mygtuku pasvietimas. Nov 18, 2024 8:02:36 GMT

whataboutthis: @bmwg201ci jums reikia patikrinti vieno paspaudimo programas, skirtas jūsų varikliui, jei to, ko norite, ten nėra, pateikite užklausą BMW oca temoje. Nov 18, 2024 9:13:28 GMT

dado: GOLF 6 MATCH - include scandinavian DRL lights? does anyone know Nov 18, 2024 10:02:35 GMT

med44: brkica SIL VOUS PLAIT J'AI INSTALER UNE CAMERA SUR UNE GOLF 8 ;ET Jai besoin du fichier 5WA980556B. Nov 19, 2024 0:35:46 GMT

lazar: How do i change app country? bmw features not available Nov 19, 2024 19:18:39 GMT

Deleted: BIuS Nov 20, 2024 1:55:57 GMT

kp55: Hi, Nov 20, 2024 15:29:05 GMT

kp55: I have VW High Beam Assist installed, however in the module under Long Coding some settings are obvious but some are not. Mine was set to left hand drive which I've changed but can anyone who drives a right hand drive please help with settings? Nov 20, 2024 15:36:06 GMT

le4dsoldier: hı Nov 20, 2024 18:39:26 GMT

le4dsoldier: ı need some help, if ı'll buy a normal obdeleven. may ı use longcoding and can ı remove sfd lock Nov 20, 2024 18:40:54 GMT

fliew: Hi All, can anyone help me to reset my 2014 Audi S3 A/C to factory setting with OBD11, thanks. Nov 21, 2024 0:38:03 GMT

t5golf: Hello, I saw in the past a tread about programming/ coding Golf VIII( and other VAG types), for example speed regulation. I saved the list/ tread it on PC but do not find it anymore. Can somone share it? Thx . Nov 21, 2024 7:09:30 GMT

bumble: Does "Confirmation of installation change" in 5F need a Pro or Ultimate license? Nov 21, 2024 10:09:51 GMT

whataboutthis: le4dsoldier if you have a pre 2024 VAG motor that is supported and you have the Pro or Ultimate license you can code Adaptions and long Coding but after 2024 SFD2 STOPS YOU. SFD Can be unlocked but basic plan only allows you to use OCA Nov 21, 2024 16:52:53 GMT

whataboutthis: fliew you need to share more info, car year have you coded in obd11 or vcds etc there is no magic button to revert to factory setting you have to undo all your changes manually in Adaptions and Long Coding you can copy/paste if you have backup Nov 21, 2024 16:54:18 GMT

yncers: кто ставил дорожные знаки на туарег CR7 Nov 23, 2024 18:26:18 GMT

zuhair3434: Hello, i have golf 1.5ETSI imported used from Denmark to israel, i would like to update navegation, does any one know that? Nov 25, 2024 8:39:23 GMT