grbac
Junior Member
Posts: 51
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Post by grbac on Mar 4, 2023 1:38:48 GMT
Hello, so I was looking at live data to see if I could maybe find whats causing my random heavy steering wheel (limits at 70% steering assist power), blower fan limited to 3 speed and radiator fan going full blast, so I went in Control Unit 01 Engine and started looking and noticed that "Coolant temperature at radiator output, specified value" was ar -48°C all the time. Does this mean that the sensor needs to be replaced? If so, where is it located? imgur.com/a/x9mEcAtThank you in advance. Grbac |
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Post by dv52 (Australia) on Mar 4, 2023 23:34:36 GMT
grbac :Hi. There is a wide ranging discussion about the infamous "-48°C" reading HERE - but I suspect that the situation might be different for this car!
The difference here is that on your car, the -48°C value applies to the "specified value" - whereas in my link, the reading applied to an actual measured value.
As I say in my link response, whether MQB platform cars have 2, or 1 coolant temperature sensors depends entirely on the type of engine that is installed in the car. My hunch (guess, really) is that this car might have an engine with only one temperature sensor - maybe?
So, I suspect that VW's temperature algorithm uses -48°C as the specified value when the radiator output sensor ("G83" in my link) isn't installed. My hypothesis is strengthened if you don't have any error messages on this car!
Again, I emphasize that this is all supposition because I don't know anything about the engine in this car!!
Don
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Post by FR05T13V3NUM on Oct 19, 2023 22:59:48 GMT
I also have the same problem my rad temp reads -48 but acual value is 303°f so idk im lost as well i traced every wire and checked output on every cooling item relate to the coolant system, one weird thing i encountered was the sensir wire for the rad temp is the thrid outer wire towards the engine on the a/c pressure sensor so im suspecting its ac related!
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Post by dv52 (Australia) on Oct 20, 2023 21:24:33 GMT
@fr05t13v3num: Again and as I've indicated in previous replies - my hunch is that a -48°C reading happens because the second temperature sensor is NOT installed in the car.
I suggest that you grab a wiring diagram for the particular engine that is installed in this car and confirm how many coolant temperature sensors are used!
Don
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Post by FR05T13V3NUM on Oct 21, 2023 18:51:03 GMT
Actually, I'm not trying to say you're wrong or anything. But I do have 2 sensors and I did a test on the coolant temperature sensor by putting it in the freezer for a little bit, then after letting it cool down to room temp I did do a test on hot water from the faucet which is about a 124°F. The sensor ohms fluctuated as it should leaving me to believe there was another issue. So i check every fuse and made sure it was the right one. One thing i did notice inside my OBD11 Control unit one, there is a coding for 2 cooling fans. And if this were the case then I should have a 3 wire sensor instead of 2 wire sensor but my car only has a 2 wire from factory. I also spent about 9 hours opening searching every part of wiring harness in the engine bay for any flaws and upon my inpection inoticed that the 2 wire coolant temp sensor ground was connected to the high pressure sensor to the air conditioner unit and i thought maybe it was some it was drawing power and maybe the connect was bad so what I did was I removed the brown ground wire from the 3 wire connection to the high pressure air conditioner sensor and wired it directly to the body ground. Still no luck so I put it back in because the sensor was throwing a code for the air conditioner high pressure sensor Every wire checked out on all the other sensors. I'm still stuck and I don't know. I'm beginning to think it has something to do with the coding on the OBDELEVEN saying that I have 2 cooling fans when I only have one. I'm not sure so this is why I'm asking for help because I'm at a loss. I have done many test and done many inspections on a lot of sensors. I replace both sensors. And the is the third time I've changed the CTS with everyone i popped out checking each time and it showing to be okay.
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Post by FR05T13V3NUM on Oct 21, 2023 18:58:20 GMT
Car: Volkswagen Golf GTI Year: 2016 Mileage: 193073 KM --------------------------------------------------------------- 01 Engine System description: 2.0l R4 TFSI Software number: 5G0906259L Software version: 0002 Hardware number: 06K907425B Hardware version: H13 ODX name: EV_ECM20TFS0205G0906259L ODX version: 001004 Trouble codes: P218500 - Engine Coolant Temperature Sensor 2 Circuit High static    |
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Post by dv52 (Australia) on Oct 21, 2023 22:03:54 GMT
@fr05t13v3num: OK- I'm not sure which particular form of 2.0l R4 TFSI engine is in this car - but I will assume that it is either CJXC, or CJXB, or CYFB (these are ALL EA888 engines)
According to my wiring diagrams (which are for Rest-of-world models) - the arrangement for the temperature sensors is like this:
So, in regard to your words "I should have a 3 wire sensor instead of 2 wire sensor but my car only has a 2 wire from factory" - clearly the wiring diagram above suggests that 2 x wire temperature sensors are the correct type for these series engines!! Also, my picture confirms your observation "inoticed...... the 2 wire coolant temp sensor ground" - this sensor must have been G62
Why are you investigating this matter - does this car actually have any errors related to either G62, or G83?
Don
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Post by FR05T13V3NUM on Oct 21, 2023 22:42:23 GMT
Yes this the issue im having im not sure what is going on ive tried everything as i mention earlier but no luck OBDeleven data log
Car: Volkswagen Golf GTI Year: 2016 Mileage: 193074 KM
--------------------------------------------------------------- 01 Engine
System description: 2.0l R4 TFSI Software number: 5G0906259L Software version: 0002 Hardware number: 06K907425B Hardware version: H13 ODX name: EV_ECM20TFS0205G0906259L ODX version: 001004
Trouble codes: P218500 - Engine Coolant Temperature Sensor 2 Circuit High static Date: 2023-10-19 17:49:29 Mileage: 193074 km Priority: 2 Malfunction frequency counter: 1 Unlearning counter: 255 Engine speed: 0.00 1/min Normed load value: 0.0 % Vehicle speed: 0 km/h Coolant temperature: 57 °C Intake air temperature: 41 °C Ambient air pressure: 960 mbar Voltage terminal 30: 11.992 V Dynamic environmental data: 209628110E0011EC0011DC000011ED6010A6017D11EE2911DB02F2 U030000 - Internal Control Module Software Incompatibility static Date: 2023-10-19 17:49:33 Mileage: 193074 km Priority: 2 Malfunction frequency counter: 1 Unlearning counter: 255 Engine speed: 0.00 1/min Normed load value: 0.0 % Vehicle speed: 0 km/h Coolant temperature: 57 °C Intake air temperature: 41 °C Ambient air pressure: 960 mbar Voltage terminal 30: 11.992 V Dynamic environmental data: 209628110E0011EC0011DC000011ED6010A6017D11EE2811DB02F1
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Post by FR05T13V3NUM on Oct 22, 2023 2:40:11 GMT
So, in regard to your words "I should have a 3 wire sensor instead of 2 wire sensor but my car only has a 2 wire from factory" - clearly the wiring diagram above suggests that 2 x wire temperature sensors are the correct type for these series engines!! Also, my picture confirms your observation "inoticed...... the 2 wire coolant temp sensor ground" - this sensor must have been G62
Why are you investigating this matter - does this car actually have any errors related to either G62, or G83?
Don
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Post by dv52 (Australia) on Oct 22, 2023 4:07:29 GMT
hmm...... interesting - I assume that the coolant level is OK. What is the behavior of the temperature gauge on the instrument cluster with these faults?
The P218500 error could be caused by the sensor, the wiring to the Engine Control Unit (ECU), or a stuck/faulty thermostat. But I'm more intrigued by the U030000 error which has the same date/time stamp as the coolant error!! Is the coincidence in date/time for both error messages because you cleared these faults sometime in the past before running the SCAN report? If so, what is the REAL date/time of these 2 x faults (look through previous SCAN reports in History).
Is there a backstory to explain why the ECU on this car is complaining about incompatible software?
I agree that your tests suggest that the physical temp sensors are probably OK.
As you already know from your research, these sensors are just a variable resistor. When wired to the ECU, one pin on the sensor is usually at earth and the ECU responds to a changing voltage (with temp) at the other pin.
Maybe electrically check the integrity of the wires to the ECU? With the sensor installed and connected to the car's loom, turn-ON the ignition. Then grab a multi-meter and set the scale to DC volts. Measure the voltage across the 2 x pins at the sensor connector. You will probably need a couple of sewing needles to make contact with the pins (via the back of the connector) for this test.
These sensors usually have a "negative temperature coefficient"- meaning that as the temperature rises, the device-resistance falls. So, if the wires to the ECU are electrically sound, you should measure a falling voltage across the 2 x pins as the coolant temperature increases - but it doesn't matter if the voltage rises with engine temperature (this just means that the sensor has a positive temperature coefficient). The important part of this test is that: - a voltage appears across the 2 x pins at ignition switch-ON
- the voltage changes as coolant temperature increases/decreases.
If the measurements above are correct - the problem lies elsewhere (maybe the thermostat)
Again, please tell us the backstory for the U030000 error - it's also possible that this is the cause for the P218500 error!
Don
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Post by FR05T13V3NUM on Oct 22, 2023 5:57:36 GMT
Sure no problem so as u can see i made changes to the Bidirectional climate control i own a 2016 Mk7 GTI S Engine code CXCA and i knew i didnt have the climatronic option which i dont know why it is coded into my engine module. May it means something else but anyways?! Idk but anyway i turnerd it back on and the module was happy. Also i have a question for you Don why does my system say i have 2 cooling fans when in fact i have the one bigger one also another question it also said i have 2 electric water pumps when in fact i only have the electric coolant recirculating pump and the mechanical one run off the engine, is it not weird its coded this way? Well as far as everything else i have no codes and no fault lights and all og my modules have green numbers   |
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Post by dv52 (Australia) on Oct 22, 2023 22:50:05 GMT
So, I've provided below a list for 3 x 2.0l R4 TFSI engines with Software version=0002 and with Hardware version=H13 - which are the same details as for the engine in this car. The engines below are ALL from "Yankee" vehicles - again the same as this car
My list uses VCDS based scans because they are much better formatted (IMO, of course) - but this doesn't matter for this purpose. I've highlighted Byte 4 in each case: Address 01: Engine (J623-CXCA) Labels:. 06K-907-425-V1.clb
Part No SW: 5G0 906 259 D HW: 06K 907 425 B
Component: 2.0l R4 TFSI H13 0002
Revision: --H13--- CVN: ADD9AFD8
Coding: 091900122424002F0000
Address 01: Engine (J623-CXCA) Labels:. 06K-907-425-V1.clb
Part No SW: 5G0 906 259 D HW: 06K 907 425 B
Component: 2.0l R4 TFSI H13 0002
Revision: --H13---
Coding: 091D00124424002F0000 Address 01: Engine (J623-CXCA) Labels:. 06K-907-425-V1.clb
Part No SW: 5G0 906 259 L HW: 06K 907 425 B
Component: 2.0l R4 TFSI H13 0002
Revision: --H13---
Coding: 091900322424002F0000
I see that the "old value" for the long-code string in your picture is 091D00122324002F1000. For your engine, Byte 4 = hex23=00100011
So, it seems that for the 3 x engines above - all are coded for 2 x fans albeit there is variation in the water pump number.
I suggest that you examine the records in History for this car - look back through the changes - has the long-code string for the engine module been modified previous to the values in your picture?
Don
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Post by FR05T13V3NUM on Oct 23, 2023 5:04:11 GMT
Hmm...thanks for this im going to try the three of them and see what happens bc i noticed the fan was only called for 50% power and i though with the twin fan coding it might be doing that for the longevity of the parts and maybe the ecu thinks there might be another fan present because of the coding issue i will deff look in to this thank u sir!im not sure how it worka or if i can even do it but if i can sen u a copy of my full back up would you mind cross referencing it with the othe system you have?
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Post by FR05T13V3NUM on Oct 23, 2023 5:17:08 GMT
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Post by dv52 (Australia) on Oct 23, 2023 21:10:11 GMT
hmm.... your history log doesn't show the coding changes made on this car! You need to deselect everything but coding changes before creating the file.
But - why are you pursuing these issues when there are no errors on this car? Your observations regarding the fans could be perfectly OK - depending on the ambient conditions for the coolant temperatures
Don
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