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Post by kgbpower on Jun 29, 2022 19:35:57 GMT
Hi!
My Golf 7-2014 have a conde under Air Con - Fault Code: U103000 - Local data bus - Electrical error.
Fresh air Ventilator and A/C are Not working, until now I cheeked the ventilator (works fine), J126 control unit (replaced with a new one), change the J301 manual controller and filled up the refrigerant in a specialized shop.
I found on the forum that I need to adapt the new J301 unit, with engine working/idling - Basic settings 1st did the "flap end stop" - worked ok, and 2nd the "compressor run in, automatic start"- this did not work error received = (22) Function cancelled, marginal conditions have not been met.
Please help me with this U103000 I can`t find anything on it, and is the only fault code received.
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Post by dv52 (Australia) on Jun 29, 2022 22:52:13 GMT
kgbpower : hmm..... difficult to be precise, but the fault code descriptor suggests that something amiss with the data feed for the hex08 module ("U103000" is actually a generalized error - so not specific to the hex08 module). If the only components that you replaced are J301 and J126 - then maybe start with a check of the wiring between the two components.
As you probably already know, J126 is a LIN slave of J301. LiN is a single wire communication protocol -so start with the wire on this pin (maybe). You don't say which type of AC is in this car - but check the wiring diagram to identify the correct pin.
The other matter that may be worth pursuing is the long-code string and adaptation channel database for the new J301 unit. I assume that you have aligned the settings in the new module with the settings in the original hex08 module. Maybe recheck that these values are correct.
And finally, sometimes when the compressor run-in procedure doesn't work, re-applying the same value in the adaptation channel in J301 helps. I'm not sure if this will work on your module- but it's an easy try, so worth a shot. The channel is: - Runtime for compressor run-in basic setting >120 seconds
Don
PS: not related to your problem, but this very simple procedure might be of interest:
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Post by kgbpower on Jun 30, 2022 4:45:48 GMT
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Hi dv52, Thanks you for the suggestion, I will check the continuity of the blue cable between the modules. My J301 is the manual A/C controller, I tried the calibration by pushing the A/C and recirculation button, the A/C button started to blink but cant see any difference. I look in the Long coding and could not find the "Hex 08", I'm a noob on this adaptation and coding that needs to be done, don`t know what needs to be done.   |
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Post by kgbpower on Jun 30, 2022 16:00:06 GMT
Hi,
I checked the continuity on the marked arrow points, in the connector of the Ventilator+Redresor with J301 and G805 pressure sensor, there is continuity; so my assumption is that there should be a signal but i don`t know how to check it.
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Post by dv52 (Australia) on Jun 30, 2022 22:32:26 GMT
kgbpower : hmm.......OK, maybe an explanation of the basics might help - please don't take offense because none is intended
On a car with CAN based protocols (like your mk7), each of the myriad of modules live on 2 x wire networks from a communication perspective (CAN-high wire and CAN-low wire). There are a number of these CAN buses on a modern car - the separation is functionally based and the climate control function is designated to the Convenience CAN bus.
So- communications between ALL of the modules on these various CAN buses are controlled by a central module - which OBD11 calls the Gateway module. You can think about the set-up as a hub-and-spoke arrangement with the Gateway module at the hub - directing comms traffic on each of the spokes (being each of the different CAN buses -to which other modules are connected)
The way that the Gateway module identifies a remote module is via a digital address (each module has its own unique digital address). The Air Conditioning module lives at address hex08 on the CAN network. If you look at the OBD11 screen that shows the list of installed modules, you should see "08" in a circle on the upper right side of the climatronic module.
So, the module address (hex08 in this case) uses the same numbering system as the long-code values (i.e. hexadecimal maths), but the two are very different!!
Now, again I mean no offense - but before you removed the old hex08 module (J255 in this case), did you make a back-up of the module database, being the old long-code values AND the the values of the old Adaptation channels?
AND, after you installed the new hex08 module - did you change the long-code and adaptation channel values to align with the old module values, so that the new module values are compatible with the equipment in the car as factory built?
If the answer to these questions is NO - where did the long-code values that are shown in your screenshot for the new hex08 module come from?
Don
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Post by kgbpower on Jul 1, 2022 11:44:21 GMT
Hi,
I did not change the long-code and adaptation channel values (no knowledge to do that) but I guess it`s there because the new module is a 2nd hand one and both are identical 5G097426R, there are a lot of endings "R" even on the basic AC manual controller like mine. So if I connect back the old module is there a way to copy and paste the long code to the new one?
I understand the can low/hi but I assume the j301 module works on the Lin (1 cable).
reviewing the electrical schematic I saw that Pressure sensor is linked on the LIN wire, and this is showing a value NOK of 51bar, but strage that there is no error code on it, changed the sensor with a new one and I have the same reading of 51 bar, my assumption is that something blokes the fresh air blower due to the value measured on the AC pressure.
I'm here to lean, so no offense.
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Post by dv52 (Australia) on Jul 1, 2022 23:19:06 GMT
kgbpower : more hmm..... I think that more "basic" understanding might be useful here.
So, before I start and just for clarity, J255 is the fully CAN registered module for the new climatronic unit and J301 is the basic air-conditioning version (again, fully CAN registered).
I've not compared the wiring diagrams for the 2 x different modules in detail, but I assume that you have done this. But -yes, the LIN pin for both J301 and J255 is pin #16 on the 20x pin connector. Also yes G805 (pressure sensor), is connected to the LIN pin on both modules
OK - now for the basics: Let's talk about how VAG modules are designed. In general, yes it's very important to use a module with the correct P/N - but also very important is the Software number (I assume that on your hex08 module the two are the same). I don't know what the "R" version signifies on your module - but in general, VAG modules with the same P/N are made to suit a large variety of differently optioned cars. On the production-line, the way that these modules are tailored to the types of different options that are fitted to a particular vehicle is via the module's long-code.
You can think of long-code as being a huge bank of switches that can be set to ON/OFF via software. Long-code is made-up of Bytes and Bits. Each Byte in long-code contains 8 x Bits and each software switch is a Bit - therefore, each Byte has 8 x software switches. Your hex08 module has 16 x Bytes - therefore the module has a total of 128 x software switches
This means that a single hex08 module with the one Part Number (including the "R") can be used on cars which have up to 256 different build versions (because each software switch has 2 x possible positions)
Each of these switches controls a different aspect of the AC function. Examples of what characteristics these switches control are : - Type of car (hatchback, soft-top, etc)
- Refrigerant type
- Engine type (diesel, petrol)
- Compressor characteristics
- etc
Once these software switches are set at the factory to a pattern that matches how the car was built, there are then further instructions required to tell the module how to operate the features that long-code says are installed in the car. These "how-to-operate" instructions are set by the adaptation channels in the module.
I'm not sure, but I would imagine that long-code settings on the original J301 module in your car won't exactly map onto your new J255 module. Nevertheless, there will be settings on the old module that can be transferred to the new module - there will also be long-code switches that will require your judgement as to how to set. Many of the descriptions as to which software switch does what is found in the OBD11 coding screen - use the OBD11 training material to learn how to do this (basically, click on "0/1" symbol - which is immediately to the right of the word "long coding" on your previous OBD11 screen-shot).
It's highly unlikely that the long-code/adaptation-channel settings on the donor car for your new module will be correct for your car - albeit it is possible, I guess! I suggest that you go through each Bit on each Byte on the old module and decide which are OK to transfer to the new module. Do the same for the adaptation channels. A good way to do this (for the adaptation channels) is to make a back-up of both the modules -and then compare the values of individual channels off-line Again, see OBD11 training material
Now, let's be clear - I'm NOT saying that a mis-alignment of the long-code/Adaptation channels is the cause of your problem. However, what I am suggesting is that this task is a very important and a necessary step for any module swap exercise.
Before you try to diagnose your fault, I suggest that it be completed!!
Don
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Post by kgbpower on Jul 2, 2022 16:30:10 GMT
I installed back the old unit and reviewed the long code info, both info new unit vs old are the same, and all the info is correct (car type, refrigerant type, etc).
Another strange thing found was that on the signal wire (lin ) the voltage measured was 4v and not 12v as I understood it should be.
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Post by dv52 (Australia) on Jul 2, 2022 23:48:17 GMT
kgbpower : Excellent - well done!! So, regarding your "strange thing" - it ain't really strange; in fact, the 4 Volts is to be expected!!
As I have said on a number of occasions above, LIN (Local Interconnect Network) is a communication function that happens over a single wire, Because LIN is about the communication of information between a master and slave device, the voltage pattern on the LIN wire is a series of square waves like this:
Now - without going into an arcane description of what the pulses in the chart mean - note the following: - The horizontal scale on the chart is time
- The vertical scale on the chart is Volts
- The voltage of the waveform is binary (meaning it has 2 x states) - The values of these 2 x states is full battery rail volts and about 1 Volt.
- The normal state for no data exchange is full battery rail volts (see the extreme RHS of the waveform) - this is called a "recessive" comms protocol by engineers
If you connect a domestic quality multi-meter on the LIN wire and if you select DC volts on the meter, it will read roughly the average value of volts for the waveform shown. Of course, the DC voltage reading will vary depending on the number of pulses at the time of measurement (which change continuously)
Bottom line = ain't nothing wrong with 4 Volts on the LIN wire - 4 Volts suggests a healthy communication between devices. - If the multi-meter measured zero volts (say) - it would signify a problem
- If the meter measured full battery volts - it would mean a potentially good LIN facility, but with no active exchange of data happening at the time of voltage measurement.
Don
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Post by kgbpower on Jul 5, 2022 5:47:19 GMT
Went with the car to an Auto Electrician, we still can`t find the root cause of the problem. In OBD11 app I observed that under: Air conditioning/ Advanced Identification/ Known Subsystems - that Subsystem designation is: "subsystem not coded". Is this normal or something should be coded? and what are the subsystems? Attachments:
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Post by dv52 (Australia) on Jul 6, 2022 0:43:52 GMT
Let's deal with your second question first: "what are the subsystems?"
If you look through my previous replies, you will find multiple instances where I talk about "fully registered CAN modules". Today's cars are very complex from an electronic communication perspective; often with many modules installed. To control the myriad of complex CAN messages that happen every micro-second, the hierarchy of modules is broken-up into two levels like this:
- Fully registered CAN modules are at the top level - these are modules that are directly wired into the CAN network and talk directly to one another albeit this communication happens under the control of the Gateway module.
- At the second level are modules/peripherals that are not directly connected to the main CAN spine. These modules/peripherals talk to the CAN network through a fully registered CAN module and they are "slave" units in that they are wired to "master" modules (which have full full CAN registration). OBD11 calls these slave units Subsystems.
LIN devices are "slave" units - however, they don't necessarily have to be categorized as Subsystems when the Gateway module is in diagnostics mode. It really depends on the importance of the LIN module to the operation of the master module. And, it also depends on the ability of the slave device to operate in different environments - those LIN modules that can operate in many different environments tend to have a long-code string and any LIN module that has a long-code is ALWAYS categorized as a Subsystem.
OK - now for your first question "subsystem not coded -is this normal?"
Here are 2 x examples of how OBD11 reports the hex 08 module on mk7 Golf vehicles:
--------------------------------------------------------------- 08 Air Conditioning System description: Climatronic Software number: 5G0907044BD Software version: 1001 Hardware number: 5G0907044BD Hardware version: H03 ODX name: EV_ACClimaBHBVW37X ODX version: 003018 Long coding: 00020004200100011005004000101002 Trouble codes: No trouble codes found
---------------------------------------------------------------
08 Air Conditioning
System description: Climatronic
Software number: 5G0907044DN
Software version: 2001
Hardware number: 5G0907044DN
Hardware version: H04
ODX name: EV_ACClimaBHBVW37X
ODX version: 006146
Long coding: 11020004100100001015104012101822
Subsystems:
System description: E265KlimaHeck
Software version: 0201
Hardware version: H02
Serial number: 04031501850571
Long coding: 000000
Trouble codes:
No trouble codes found-
---------------------------------------------------------------
If your scan did not report a Subsystem on your old hex08 module, then a Substystem won't be reported with your new module (unless you installed extra equipment). Hence nothing can be coded - which is what your screenshot is suggesting!
Don
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Post by kgbpower on Jul 6, 2022 5:20:39 GMT
Hi,
So I made a trip of 100km and scan the car, my 08 looks like this:
---------------------------------------------------------------
08 Air Conditioning
System description: AC Manuell
Software number: 5G0907426R
Software version: 0907
Hardware number: 5G0907426R
Hardware version: H02
ODX name: EV_ACManueBHBVW37X
ODX version: 003019
Long coding: 02020104202100001000000000000000
Trouble codes:
B109D71 - Air distribution door motor Actuator jammed
Intermittent
Date: 2022-07-03 17:01:05
Mileage: 153434 km
Priority: 2
Malfunction frequency counter: 1
Unlearning counter: 59
Dynamic environmental data: 028677260945263700C07B263800E5
U103000 - Local data bus Electrical error
Intermittent
Date: 2022-07-02 20:19:40
Mileage: 153335 km
Priority: 6
Malfunction frequency counter: 17
Unlearning counter: 63
U10BA00 - Local data bus No communication
static
Date: 2022-07-04 07:11:18
Mileage: 153436 km
Priority: 6
Malfunction frequency counter: 6
Unlearning counter: 23
B10AE29 - High pressure sensor Implausible signal
static
Date: 2022-07-04 07:18:42
Mileage: 153440 km
Priority: 2
Malfunction frequency counter: 11
Unlearning counter: 23
Dynamic environmental data: 26092FF40C0E26010026124E2650FFFF
B10BE31 - Fresh air blower, front No signal
static
Date: 2022-07-06 06:56:18
Mileage: 153478 km
Priority: 2
Malfunction frequency counter: 1
Unlearning counter: 23
Dynamic environmental data: 02868A2609292613010E2650080D
............................................
I have the original unit installed I assume there should not be an issue with the coding; what seems strange for me is the fact that I have an compressor error under the Gateway.
---------------------------------------------------------------
19 Gateway
System description: GW MQB Low
Software number: 5Q0907530R
Software version: 2186
Hardware number: 5Q0907530K
Hardware version: 210
Serial number: 11051410801319
ODX name: EV_GatewConti
ODX version: 011017
Long coding: 030000340B087300EF00004C080F00010001050000000000000000000000
Subsystems:
System description: J367-BDMHella
Software version: 8043
Hardware version: H03
Serial number: 9217003403
Trouble codes:
U103B00 - A/C compressor No Communication
Intermittent
Date: 2022-07-02 20:13:03
Mileage: 153335 km
Priority: 2
Malfunction frequency counter: 1
Unlearning counter: 57
Supply voltage, terminal 30: 12.2 V
Terminal 15: On
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Post by dv52 (Australia) on Jul 6, 2022 22:12:36 GMT
I'm really not sure how compatible your new module is with the factory modules in the car. For example, I note that you have a "low" version Gateway module - are you certain that the new hex08 module will work with this version hex19 module? Maybe also check the version of your central electrics module? It should be no surprise that the Gateway module has a fault regarding the AC compressor. As I've said a number of times already - the Gateway module controls ALL communication between modules. Clearly some of these CAN messages that the Gateway module controls involve communications to and from the hex08 module. Your hex08 module confirms that there is a fault with comms on the local bus. I suspect that some of this missing data is related to the compressor and it is required by the Gateway module. Since this data isn't being received, a fault is registered by the Gateway module.
Don
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Post by kgbpower on Jul 8, 2022 5:12:05 GMT
Hi,
Something strange happening this morning, I start the engine to go at work and the fresh air fan start to spin at a constant speed (no input received from J301 regulator button), after the engine shut down the fan still worked...I pulled out the fuse14 to stop it.
I have the original A/C controller installed-J301.
Looking in the repair manual actually I see that replacing a subsystem is not requiring a coding, don`t know why OBD11 has that menu telling us that is not coded.
By subsystem I mean J126 - fan controlled as an subsystem example, but indeed the repair manual request a adaptation for the J301 by “A/C compressor first start ” - but OBD11 don`t allow me to do this due to an error popping up: "(22) Function cancelled, marginal conditions have not been met".
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Post by kgbpower on Jul 26, 2022 13:19:30 GMT
problem solved. thx for the help.
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Post by dv52 (Australia) on Jul 26, 2022 21:42:51 GMT
kgbpower- good - but given the discussions above, please provide a description regarding how the problem was solved (it's of interest to me and it may help someone else with the same/similar issue) Don
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Post by kgbpower on Aug 19, 2022 13:43:53 GMT
hi, Sorry for late reply. Due to the blocked nozzle of the back windshield sprinkler some windshield cleaning solution went on some connectors...this was the Dealer analysis/report.
Nozzle was like 20% blocked, i had no clue that was an issue with it.
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