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Post by veso266 on Aug 29, 2023 9:56:32 GMT
Hello there, I am making my bench setup Curently I have RNS510 and RCD210 radios I also have 7L6 919 148 A TV module and Bluetooth module (7P6035730F) I will also have my STM32H750B-DK (it has 2 CAN transcievers) to the CANbus (to emulate modules, sniff and modify traffic), my setup will probably only have theese 3 modules connected (radio, tv, bluetooth and STM32, maybe a CD changer (if I found one) I found this harness: www.aliexpress.us/item/3256801217104176.html (3B7035444A quadlock) which I believe is the right one as I have PQ platform The onlything missing is the gateway What gateway do I need so everything will be able to comunicate with eachother? I assume it has to be from a specific year If I get a new gateway (like from MQB platform, is this backwards compatible or it will not work with my RNS510)? What about the gateway port? (did pinout stay the same between PQ and MQB platforms? (I don't want to accidently connect 12V to canbus because newer gateway has a different pinout?) I would like to future prof my setup (at least the cabling), so I am assuming I can just buy this adapter PQ to MQB adapter: durvient.com/pq-to-mqb-quadlock-connector/and connect MQB platform radio to my cabling (maybe change the gateway, remove old modules) and it will work? Thanks for Anwsering and Best Regards
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Post by dv52 (Australia) on Aug 29, 2023 23:15:16 GMT
veso266 : Hmm........ I'm not sure that I understand your objective - but I think you are trying to build a PQ35 platform test-bench that concentrates on infotainment modules but that will operate with an MQB platform Gateway module. If so - good luck the project! Here is the high-level topology for the infotainment CAN bus on a PQ35 platform car showing how the TV module is connected
And this is the equivalent for a MQB platform car, again showing the TV module (the diagram shows a MMI, but it's the same network structure when a MIB is installed) Notice the prominence of the MOST bus - which is a high-speed optical fiber protocol!!
Other issues that you will need to reconcile with this cross-platform test-bench will be Component Protection (CP) which is part of MQB platform cars. The Gateway module is the master module for CP. Unless the modules that are CP sensitive are from the same donor car as the master CP module, they won't work properly on the test bench (for example, the MIB can be coded with CP errors, but it will have no audio)
I'm also not sure how PQ35 platform cars manage those modules that are SWAP - but MQB modules have these authorization codes resident in both the hex19 and hex5F modules
Don
PS: just as an example of a MQB test-bench, this is mine (but, my test-bench has an entireky different objective to your needs)
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Post by veso266 on Aug 31, 2023 10:51:05 GMT
Thanks, I guess I will focus on building PQ platform test bench first as all the modules I have are from PQ platform anyway, I don't even have MQB modules (I can always swap the gateway for PQ one as long as the connector and the pinout is the same) do PQ platforms have Component protection? I know RNS510 only has a code, what about the TV and bluetooth module? Also I guess its the best if I get the latest gateway from PQ platform possible? Or does gateway matter? There are tons of gateways around, realy not sure which one to pick and whats the difference between them 1K0-907-530-A 1K0-907-530-B 1K0-907-530-C 1K0-907-530-D 1K0-907-530-E 1K0-907-530-F 1K0-907-530-G 1K0-907-530-H 1K0-907-530-J 1K0-907-530-K 1K0-907-530-K 1K0-907-530-K 1K0-907-530-P I know this are not compatible, because they cause the battery drain issue (I know this is not a problem with my setup, but would still rather have a compatible gateway, who knows what else might not works right) Also, do you maybe know can you simulate ignition, reverse, backlight only with CanBus now (using STM32H750B-Dk sending the right CAN messages), or do u also need any extra 12V somewhere like in the old days If I see your bench setup corecly you have a real keyfob (does this also send CAN messages), I guess STM32H750B-DK (similar microcontroller then arduino) route is cheaper since I already have it at home
BTW: I like your setup, what is your objective for a testbench, mine is to hook infotaiment modules up, play with RNS510 VxWorks OS, and play with CANBus How do you deal with component protection, did you get everything from the same car or you brought your bench to the dealer so he removed CP from it?
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Post by dv52 (Australia) on Aug 31, 2023 22:02:35 GMT
veso266 : Alas my understanding of PQ platform isn't good- so I can't comment on most of your questions related to the older model cars!
My test bench has gone through a number of incarnations as I learned better how to make it work. In the first version, my initial assumption was that the ignition-ON condition could be simulated via a T15 Voltage - I quickly discover this NOT to the case. A MQB test-bench requires a module wake-up signal which generates a "Klemmen_Status_01" on the CAN bus.
The module wake-up message for a MQB CAN network has ID=0x3C0 and it is repeated every 100ms. The message contains 4 x Bytes like this: - Byte00=checksum
- Byte01=incremental number 00 to 15 in each subsequent message (returns to zero after 16 x transmissions)
- Byte02=Bosch Klemme Designation flags for:
- Terminal S
- Terminal 15
- Terminal X?
- Terminal 50
For ignition-ON, set Terminal S & 15
- Byte 03=0
Again, on a MQB test-bench, the module wake-up message is injected onto the Convenience CAN bus and amongst other things, it instructs the central electrics module to operate the J329 relay, which powers-up the T15 voltage rail on a real car
My option when building my test-bench was whether to artificially generate the module wake-up signal (via Arduino), or use the OEM method. For me, this decision was driven by my objective for the test-bench - which was to build a learning tool for Leuchte programming (the operation of the 35 x exterior lights on MQB cars is controlled by a low-level language which I call "Leuchte programming")
So, to achieve the objective for my test-bench, I needed to include High-beam, High-beam flash and left/right blinker signals. Yes, I could have tried sniffing the CAN messages to simulate these lighting switches- but it was easier to use the signals from the initiating MQB module. These signals are generated on the steering wheel module. This module also contains the rotary switch for the ignition key. Hence my decision to use the OEM method to generate the CAN wake-up signal
Again I'm not sure about PQ platform cars, but I don't believe that they use Component Protection. To keep build costs low, I sourced the modules for my test bench from various places. I was aware that multi-sourcing modules would result in CP errors, but this didn't matter-because of my objective. Modules that have CP errors generally will not operate on a real car - but the modules can still be fully coded, meaning that Leuchte-programming is possible!
Finally, no it's NOT possible to remove CP from my test-bench because of the artificial nature of the set-up.
Don
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