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Post by carpetdaz on Feb 6, 2022 16:51:36 GMT
I have just purchased a 2010 vw golf estate. Since purchase I have been looking at VCD to clear any future faults etc, then I have seen OBDeleven which looks ace and seems more practical the carrying a laptop about. Before I make my decision onto which way I go I would like to know if OBDeleven can do the following actions which I know VCD can.
1. Upgraded my radio to an RCD300, I have parking sensors but no reversing camera. Every time I reverse I get annoying message regarding reverse camera and I would like to disable this. ( this can be done with VCD )
2. I will soon be installing a towbar to my car and would like this programmed in to maybe disable rear sensors if needed ( this can can be done via vcd )
3. I have no issues with dpf at moment but you never know whats in future, can forced regens be done 9 ( this can be done via VCD )
If the 3 above things can be then its a no brainer and OBDeleven all the way, if not then I am gonna have to way things up before jumping in.
Thank you for any feedback in advance.
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Post by Matthew on Apr 11, 2022 21:24:44 GMT
All coding and adaptations that can be done using VCDS, can also be done with OBDeleven.
I have VCDS, OBDeleven, Autel, and a strange copy of ODIS. OBDeleven will suit your need.
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jjjs
New Member
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Post by jjjs on Jul 14, 2022 6:44:19 GMT
All coding and adaptations that can be done using VCDS, can also be done with OBDeleven. I have VCDS, OBDeleven, Autel, and a strange copy of ODIS. OBDeleven will suit your need. You're saying ALL coding and adaptations?? I have trouble "translating" VCDS coding to OBDeleven. I constantly find instructions online for an adaptation using VCDS, but can't discern how to complete the same process with my OBDeleven. I know all makes/models can be different different, but here's a good example: Permanently coding out all bulb out error warnings for my 2013 Jetta.
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jjjs
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Post by jjjs on Jul 14, 2022 6:56:58 GMT
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Post by jindra on Jul 14, 2022 7:22:11 GMT
I have both VCDS and OBDELEVEN - a bit more complicated, labels and hints are missing. You buy Vcds once and you don't have any other costs. You buy Obdeven and you will pay the PRO+KKREDITY version every year.
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Post by whataboutthis on Jul 14, 2022 11:13:32 GMT
All coding and adaptations that can be done using VCDS, can also be done with OBDeleven. I have VCDS, OBDeleven, Autel, and a strange copy of ODIS. OBDeleven will suit your need. You're saying ALL coding and adaptations?? I have trouble "translating" VCDS coding to OBDeleven. I constantly find instructions online for an adaptation using VCDS, but can't discern how to complete the same process with my OBDeleven. I know all makes/models can be different different, but here's a good example: Permanently coding out all bulb out error warnings for my 2013 Jetta. To be clear I am not a fan of OBD11 Anymore but that is simply down to the outstanding bug list and new Subscription model / no notice changes to credits (which I am not impacted by).
But to the point of translating VCDS Coding to OBDEleven I have never come across that issue on MQB Platform. What I do see a lot of is people trying to use the wrong coding for the car - so an example is the Golf, 2020 Model when you look at control unit 09 (central electronics) the long coding string is all 000000000, this is because VAG moved the switches to Adaptation channels but if you look at a 2017 Model then there is a fully functional long coding process.
So its very easy to see a video / forum post about changes and when you look at your motor its not the same.
VAG also often change names of stuff so again if you motor does not have the same setup then coding wont make sense.
VAG can move stuff from one control unit to another (example older cars have control unit 46 - Comfort system these got moved to different control unit on new cars) Then you get into the Protocol issue, older cars run on KWP2000 which can use Coding (different setup to the long coding on UDS) and Adaption or new cars use CAN: UDS which has Adaptation and Long Coding (sometimes).
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Post by Matthew on Jul 14, 2022 15:39:13 GMT
You're saying ALL coding and adaptations?? Yes, ALL coding and adaptations.
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Post by Matthew on Jul 14, 2022 15:43:23 GMT
here's a good example: Permanently coding out all bulb out error warnings for my 2013 Jetta. You will have to look for the BITs that say "Cold light diagnosis". But please note that these coding changes don't always have any effect on the rest of the car (such as the instrument cluster not showing the alert).
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Post by Matthew on Jul 14, 2022 15:48:26 GMT
labels and hints are missing. I have no doubt that the team is busy working on such modules. I believe the issue is that there are so many variations of the SAME module (firmware version-wise) that the development team may miss out on a few. If you create a thread including your SCAN, then the developers can address your issue, and identify similar modules that need labels and hints.
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Post by Matthew on Jul 14, 2022 15:51:16 GMT
You buy Obdeven and you will pay the PRO+KKREDITY version every year. This wasn't the case before where once you (previously) purchased the Pro version, you have it for life, and back then you received daily credits for free just opening the app with an internet connection, or watching a few short advertisements.
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Post by Matthew on Jul 14, 2022 15:53:56 GMT
But to the point of translating VCDS Coding to OBDEleven I have never come across that issue on MQB Platform. [/div] What I do see a lot of is people trying to use the wrong coding for the car - so an example is the Golf, 2020 Model when you look at control unit 09 (central electronics) the long coding string is all 000000000, this is because VAG moved the switches to Adaptation channels but if you look at a 2017 Model then there is a fully functional long coding process. [/quote] Very much agreed.
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Post by Matthew on Jul 14, 2022 15:55:18 GMT
VAG can move stuff from one control unit to another (example older cars have control unit 46 - Comfort system these got moved to different control unit on new cars) [/div] Then you get into the Protocol issue, older cars run on KWP2000 which can use Coding (different setup to the long coding on UDS) and Adaption or new cars use CAN: UDS which has Adaptation and Long Coding (sometimes). [/quote] Correct. I'd raise my drinking glass to that one.
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Post by Matthew on Jul 14, 2022 15:55:58 GMT
VAG can move stuff from one control unit to another (example older cars have control unit 46 - Comfort system these got moved to different control unit on new cars)Then you get into the Protocol issue, older cars run on KWP2000 which can use Coding (different setup to the long coding on UDS) and Adaption or new cars use CAN: UDS which has Adaptation and Long Coding (sometimes). Correct. I'd raise my drinking glass to that one.
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Post by whataboutthis on Jul 14, 2022 16:15:03 GMT
labels and hints are missing. I have no doubt that the team is busy working on such modules. I believe the issue is that there are so many variations of the SAME module (firmware version-wise) that the development team may miss out on a few. If you create a thread including your SCAN, then the developers can address your issue, and identify similar modules that need labels and hints. A feature of OBD11 Android is the ability to add your own descriptions to the coding/long coding, If you have details of all the mapping for your control unit in the past (no idea if they still will) OBD11 Did upload the file but as a minimum you can yourself add the descriptions in multi languages as well as grouping Bits together.
But if you are on IOS then you cant do this as this is one of the many things that still need to be completed.
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Post by jindra on Jul 14, 2022 16:33:57 GMT
Adding a label is not entirely true, it can only be done with PRO for money. Better buy vcds, there are no additional costs.
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Post by Matthew on Jul 14, 2022 18:22:28 GMT
I have trouble "translating" VCDS coding to OBDeleven. I constantly find instructions online for an adaptation using VCDS, but can't discern how to complete the same process with my OBDeleven. I'll use your quoted example to do the process of coding the radio for my RCD510 and non-existent camera in OBDeleven, VCDS, and Autel so you see the instructions are the same, but the menu structure just looks a little different. OBDeleven is easiest in my opinion to get to what you want. Autel shows you only what the module provides, VCDS has a nice easy-to-use set of "hints" to get what you want to be done. OBDeleven looks best with a larger high-resolution screen in my opinion.
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Post by whataboutthis on Jul 14, 2022 18:35:09 GMT
Adding a label is not entirely true, it can only be done with PRO for money. Better buy vcds, there are no additional costs. Agree you are correct, I have the Lifetime Pro so forget that these features are not available to all
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Post by dv52 (Australia) on Jul 14, 2022 23:45:58 GMT
@ jjjs : Hi. I'll leave your general discussion about whether VCDS or OBD11 is the better diagnostic device to others - my view is that there isn't a clear winner.
However, rather than concentrating on the technical differences between the 2 x devices (both really do the same things -albeit they do these things differently) - maybe your focus should be on what appears to be very different price models that Ross-Tech and VOLTAS are using. By this I mean that before making a choice, understand how both manufacturers seem to extract money from your wallet!! Before going any further, I preface my comments with the admission that I have absolutely NO financial, or personal allegiance to either Ross-Tech, or VOLTAS. I have used both cables for many years and until recently I was an active contributor on both forums. So, my views are mine alone - I have no hidden agenda, whatsoever!! Now - forgive me if you already know this stuff, but when purchasing a diagnostic device - there are two separate and distinct costs that happen. For the want of better descriptions for these 2 x costs - lets call them "CAPEX" and "OPEX" To explain:
- CAPEX is the money that a buyer pays up front - it's normally the number that's listed on the advertised item and it's usually the value of decrease from the buyer's bank balance when a purchase decision is made
- OPEX is the ongoing OPerating costs to use the device - it's normally also stated for the advertised item albeit, it seldom gets the same prominence on the webpage
Unfortunately when comparing the price of the two diagnostic devices, most folk concentrate on the advertised price (i.e. CAPEX $s). However, what appears at first blush to be a cheaper product can end-up costing more to actually use in the longer term -it all depends!! The good thing about CAPEX is that it's a known number - so financial comparison between VCDS and OBD11 is fairly easy -if based only on CAPEX. However, once the item is purchased - the buyer is committed- meaning that a VCDS/OBD11 user is captured by the manufacture for ongoing OPEX costs. So OPEX is an ongoing risk for users-whereas CAPEX is not (it's called a "sunk-cost" once the purchase has been made). As I have said, the buyer usually knows the OPEX cost that is advertised with the diagnostic device - but what the buyer doesn't know is how OPEX costs will change in future years (remember, once purchased- a user is captured by the manufacturer).
OK - let's look at the financial models that Ross-Tech and VOLTAS appear to use for their products based on the two terms that I have introduced above!! Again, I stress that these are my personal views! Ross-Tech appears to place ALL their product costs into the CAPEX bucket - once the purchase is made, the buyer does not incur any further charges as OPEX. This arrangement helps to explain (at least in part) the apparent higher price for VCDS. Of course anything is possible - but at least to date, there doesn't appear to be any change in the VCDS price design
VOLTAS's original pricing strategy was the same as that of Ross-Tech (i.e. all CAPEX, no OPEX). The CAPEX price for OBD11 appears to be lower than VCDS - BUT, stuff appears to have changed over recent years. Importantly, changes to the pricing design of OBD11 appear to herald a growing reliance on OPEX revenue for the manufacturer.
The interesting aspect of VOLTAS most recent OPEX pricing decision is that whereas existing customers were excused from the annual PRO license fee, this didn't apply to the fee for the now obsolete free one-click-apps! It's not clear why this different approach was adopted (in truth, there appears to be very little explanation by VOLTAS explaining any part of their decision) - but some might conclude that it's a significant shift in future corporate decisions related to perhaps new OPEX charges (if any).
Bottom line = before making a decision to buy - think about more than just the advertised purchase price; consider the whole-of-life cost Don
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Post by Matthew on Jul 19, 2022 21:49:17 GMT
Don, I agree with your post. It should be stickied in its own thread. I also have both tools to include Autel J2534, VCP, AVDI, and a copy of ODIS. In my experience (having an OBDeleven lifetime subscription prior to the recent changes) still believe OBDeleven is the cheaper option both in terms of CAPEX and OPEX as I don't use the one-click-apps and as such code the various modules myself (based on Ross-Tech's Wiki articles which are free to view by the general public).
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Post by dv52 (Australia) on Jul 19, 2022 22:57:54 GMT
matthew : Yes, on a dollar for dollar comparison (including CAPEX & OPEX) - the numbers do indeed stack-up in VOLTAS favor if price is the single determinant in the purchasing decision (especially considering that the cheaper VCDS models are severely restricted by the number of VINs that are licensed with the device! It's a self-evident cliche, but it's worth highlighting for the sake of this discussion - neither Ross-Tech, nor VOLTAS really have the buyer's interest at heart! As users- you, me and anyone else who has purchased OBD11, or VCDS (or anything, really) serve just ONE purpose. And that single purpose is that we collectively contribute to the corporate objective of providing a return on shareholder investment! Ain't nothing unusual about this dynamic - it's the heart-beat of commerce. Placed in this proper context, stuff like post-purchase customer service, supposedly user friendly pricing regimes and nonsense like after-sales corporate loyalty to users are all illusions except to the extent that they feed the ONE corporate objective!! So, if we understand that the ONLY role a buyer has is to feed the corporate objective, the recent pricing decision of VOLTAS makes sense! I have absolutely no doubt that VOLTAS regularly makes the same price comparison with competitor products that you have made. And we will both agree that the conclusion of VOLTAS's analysis is the same as your finding (at least for VCDS). However, whereas users (like you and me) see the cheaper OBD11 price as a saving - VOLTAS view the disparity in price as lost profit. Lost profit is the enemy of the shareholder's corporate objective and there is only ONE way to combat this unacceptable enemy - lift prices!! VOLTAS had 2 x options to fight lost profit; increase the purchase price (CAPEX) and/or generate more revenue via OPEX. Clearly VOLTAS chose the latter which has the advantage that it's not so obvious a charge when purchasing OBD11 and perhaps more importantly for the shareholder, OPEX has the other added advantage in that it is recurring regular revenue (which CAPEX is not)!
In respect of the second advantage above (i.e OPEX provides additional recurring revenue) - this allows VOLTAS to temporarily drop the purchase price of OBD11 as seems to be the case in their recent sales program. The lost revenue (Up-front) from lowered purchase price increases the number of units sold. This increases the number of units that attract increased OPEX charges. Result for the shareholder is increased revenue over-all. And this increased revenue happens on an ongoing basis - year after year!! Increased regular revenue also provides a reasonably forecast-able future income stream for management - which makes corporate planning easier (whereas forecasting future revenue from CAPEX is more risky).
BOTTOM LINE = Nice little earner!!!!
Don
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jjjs
New Member
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Post by jjjs on Jul 20, 2022 6:01:13 GMT
jjjs : Hi. I'll leave your general discussion about whether VCDS or OBD11 is the better diagnostic device to others - my view is that there isn't a clear winner.
However, rather than concentrating on the technical differences between the 2 x devices (both really do the same things -albeit they do these things differently) - maybe your focus should be on what appears to be very different price models that Ross-Tech and VOLTAS are using. By this I mean that before making a choice, understand how both manufacturers seem to extract money from your wallet!! Dude, I'm not the OP. And that's a significant amount of financial info for a thread on the capabilities of the two diagnostic devices... But yes, I too agree your post should be stickied.
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