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Post by fotokasperl on Nov 11, 2021 12:49:07 GMT
First of all, thank you guys for the announcement of this new function just a couple of minutes ago.
I am currently the owner of the black dongel with the green border from the Starter Pack. This has a Lifetime Pro membership on it.
Do I need a new dongle for SFD functionality or will mine work?
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Post by Thirsty on Nov 11, 2021 12:58:46 GMT
No you don't need a new dongle. SFD unlocking works with both the old(white one) and new(black one) dongle. Edit: All OBDeleven PRO, ULTIMATE, and One-Click-Apps users will be able to perform coding on the newest VAG group models with SFD protection. No additional cost required – no need to purchase a GeKo account or buy SFD unlock tokens. Click me for more information of SFD
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Post by fotokasperl on Nov 11, 2021 13:32:27 GMT
Wow, that's great news! Thanks again for the quick response.
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Post by dv52 (Australia) on Nov 11, 2021 21:45:06 GMT
No you don't need a new dongle. SFD unlocking works with both the old(white one) and new(black one) dongle. Edit: All OBDeleven PRO, ULTIMATE, and One-Click-Apps users will be able to perform coding on the newest VAG group models with SFD protection. No additional cost required – no need to purchase a GeKo account or buy SFD unlock tokens. Click me for more information of SFD
Don't get me wrong, I agree that OBD11's first-mover solution to provide a functioning third-party (non token) SFD solution for the enthusiast market is to be applauded.
Kudos to VOLTAS IT for successfully negotiating the outcome with Volkswagen AG and also full credit to the development team @ ODB11 for implementing the formal agreement -it certainly is quite an achievement!!
So, I've read "SFD more information" link and whilst I appreciate that it's in part a celebration of the achievement (quite understandable)- it's also partly a high level guide for users. What's curiously missing (IMO, of course) is the caution material in OBD11's terms and conditions (T's-&-C's) about this new feature.
Yes, users are able to read about the "special knowledge" required to use the SFD solution - but to do so, users need to visit the T's-&-C's page on the website (which I assume most users seldom access). And importantly, prospective new users need to be aware of these requirements in the first place to have the need to visit the T's-&-C's page.
Given the importance of OBD11's advice - might it not be useful (maybe even prudent) for OBD11 to reference their own stated restrictions about who should use the SFD solution on the "more information" webpage"?
Don
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k20
Closed beta tester
Posts: 8
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Post by k20 on Nov 14, 2021 22:19:38 GMT
No you don't need a new dongle. SFD unlocking works with both the old(white one) and new(black one) dongle. Edit: All OBDeleven PRO, ULTIMATE, and One-Click-Apps users will be able to perform coding on the newest VAG group models with SFD protection. No additional cost required – no need to purchase a GeKo account or buy SFD unlock tokens. Click me for more information of SFD
Don't get me wrong, I agree that OBD11's first-mover solution to provide a functioning third-party (non token) SFD solution for the enthusiast market is to be applauded.
Kudos to VOLTAS IT for successfully negotiating the outcome with Volkswagen AG and also full credit to the development team @ ODB11 for implementing the formal agreement -it certainly is quite an achievement!!
So, I've read "SFD more information" link and whilst I appreciate that it's in part a celebration of the achievement (quite understandable)- it's also partly a high level guide for users. What's curiously missing (IMO, of course) is the caution material in OBD11's terms and conditions (T's-&-C's) about this new feature.
Yes, users are able to read about the "special knowledge" required to use the SFD solution - but to do so, users need to visit the T's-&-C's page on the website (which I assume most users seldom access). And importantly, prospective new users need to be aware of these requirements in the first place to have the need to visit the T's-&-C's page.
Given the importance of OBD11's advice - might it not be useful (maybe even prudent) for OBD11 to reference their own stated restrictions about who should use the SFD solution on the "more information" webpage"?
Don
Fully agree with this. The app functions with one click apps, for clear modification of the software for no other purpose other than to enable features. If you then read the T&C's, it clearly states that SFD access is ONLY for repair work, and any other use is a breach of T& C's, whereby VW can enforce bans and bring is 'relevant authorities' Seems to me that making any SFD changes sends your user information and VIN number to VAG for them to keep track of. Very misleading and miss-selling.
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Post by dv52 (Australia) on Nov 15, 2021 21:56:52 GMT
k20 : Hi. Yes, I also was confused by OBD11's rational of allowing one-click-apps into the SFD solution. OBD11's T's-and-C's clearly state that their software should ONLY be used by those with "special knowledge". Now, whilst I have no idea what is meant by "special", the inclusion of the term in OBD11's (proper) caution obviously means that it's not sufficient for users to have "normal knowledge". And more importantly, any reasonable interpretation of "special knowledge" CANNOT possibly include those OBD11 users that use one-click-apps - because by definition, one-click-apps are designed specifically for OBD11 users that have very little (or mostly, no) "knowledge" of control module programming. So at face value there would appear to be a direct conflict between the proper caution in OBD11's legal advice as to who should use the SFD solution and OBD11's inclusion of one-click-apps into the new regime - IMO of course!!
I'm not sure that the obvious contradiction is deliberately "mis-selling" and I'm completely ignorant of how this affects the ultimate liability of one-click-app users - but I agree that it's certainly very odd indeed!!
Don
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k20
Closed beta tester
Posts: 8
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Post by k20 on Nov 15, 2021 22:16:38 GMT
dv52 (Australia) it's all a bit too unclear for me. The link in the OBDeleven terms to the VAG T&Cs doesn't actually give you the VAG T&C's so it's all bit conflicting. Personally, before I go using this on a car, I want to know what information is being sent to VAG, and what it can and will be used for. Using phrases such as "special knowledge", "relevant authorities" and "repair work" is all a bit vague. There are plenty of people with leased cars, using the apps, who clearly haven't read the T&C's and are in breach of them. Moreover, they probably don't even understand what's going on.
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Post by whataboutthis on Nov 15, 2021 22:35:49 GMT
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Post by whataboutthis on Nov 17, 2021 16:46:34 GMT
And just to add to this from the T & C
30. Volkswagen shall carry out necessary scheduled maintenance on hardware, software and network components, preferably between 10:00 am and 12 noon CET (between 11:00 am and 13:00 Lithuania time) on the second Sunday of the month. Activity interruptions are possible at this time.
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Post by Thirsty on Nov 17, 2021 19:58:04 GMT
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Post by whataboutthis on Nov 17, 2021 21:31:08 GMT
Thank you, that will help a lot of people.
I have two item's I would like to mention,
Firstly you quote (datenschutz.volkswagen.de/download?lang=en-gb) as the VW Page but that is a typo by OBD11 it should read datenschutz.volkswagen.de/download?lang=de-de yes that is the German page but it has a few SFD Pages whilst the english one does not.
4. Manufacturer of supported vehicles
After each connection to the control unit, protected by SFD (Schutz Fahrzeug Diagnose / Vehicle Diagnostic Protection), some of your data (the pseudonymised user ID (name), pseudonymised workshop ID (if applicable), country and or the vehicle VIN code) will be transferred to the Volkswagen Group, which will analyse your actions.
If the Volkswagen Group detects violations of security requirements or other non-compliances and submits a request to us, we will also transfer to the Volkswagen Group and/ or investigative authorities your other personal data – full name, address, e-mail, telephone number and workshop ID and address (if applicable).
How long Personal Data is kept?
When you purchase our products, we will keep your Personal Data for no longer than 10 years (unless we need to keep the data longer under our agreement with the Volkswagen Group - as described below) after which time it will be destroyed. Your information we use for marketing purposes will be kept with us until you or your lawful representative notify us that you no longer wish to receive this information.
If you delete your accounts from our Services, we'll also delete this information. But please note: (1) there might be some latency in deleting this information from our servers and back-up storage; and (2) we may retain this information if necessary to comply with our legal obligations, resolve disputes, or enforce our agreements.
Please note that a different procedure than the one above applies to your personal data, which we must provide to the Volkswagen Group.
We will store your personal data, e. g. first name, surname and contact details (postal code, city, street, phone number and e-mail), as well as the vehicle’s VIN code and the pseudonymised ID code assigned to you, for 30 years from the last use of the SFD service (even after your account is removed from our system). The above storage and transfer of your data is required for the traceability of changes made to the SFD-protected control unit (the changes you can make using the Mobile Application and OBDevelen hardware).
The Volkswagen Group, after receiving your personal data, can analyse and store it in its system for 30 years from the last access to the SFD service. The Volkswagen Group will process your personal data, if necessary, under the ground of a legitimate interest (Article 6 (1f) of the Regulation (EU) 2016/679 of the European Parliament and of the Council of 27 April 2016 on the protection of natural persons with regard to the processing of personal data and on the free movement of such data, and repealing Directive 95/46/EC (GDPR) and in compliance with the legal obligations imposed on the Volkswagen Group by Regulation (EU) 2018/858 of the European Parliament and of the Council of 30 May 2018 on the approval and market surveillance of motor vehicles and their trailers, and of systems, components and separate technical units intended for such vehicles.
As well as in other cases, when your personal data is processed for the purpose of providing it to the Volkswagen Group, you can exercise your rights as a data subject - to object to the processing of personal data, to request the deletion of personal data, correction of inaccurate data, etc.). In order to exercise the above rights, you must first contact us, Voltas IT, and we will forward your request to the Volkswagen Group.
Detailed information on how the Volkswagen Group can process your personal data can be found here
We will inform you each time when there is a change in the Volkswagen Group's data processing rules (as far as the processing of your personal data is concerned).
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Post by Thirsty on Nov 17, 2021 22:32:11 GMT
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Post by whataboutthis on Nov 18, 2021 15:18:26 GMT
Just on the off chance that somebody from support reads this forum.
I personally (and I am not alone) have three outstanding issues with the SFD Setup currently.
1/ under your terms and conditions you state "the SFD service is only allowed to be used as part of the actions required for the repair (purpose limitation)" what does that actually mean please, It's key to understanding the implication to warranty.
2/ under your terms and conditions you state "20 requests per tool manufacturer per second " again what does that mean, I am presuming it means that OBD11 is only allowed to make 20 request every second regardless of user, confirmation would be good.
3/ With regards to data sharing the VW Documentation talks about IP Address data being shared but this is not mentioned in OBD11 so can we confirm if you share user IP Address please.
I have to say this whole user data seems pointless as in reality using a VPN and lying on the OBD11 Screen setup means all that data is rubbish. The only sensible data element in my eye is the VIN Number, I am sure VW Can trace which country car was sold in and obviously if it went into a garage it would be picked up but the other data seems pointless to me, if I were trying to hide my identity.
I would stress i have raised this issue via support numerous times and just get - this has been forwarded to relevant person.
NO ANSWER Then comes.
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Post by whataboutthis on Nov 19, 2021 11:49:28 GMT
Quick update,
Support have kindly come back and confirmed Yes its 20 request for OBD11 per second and further they have confirmed they do not share IP Addresses.
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Post by massimo23 on Nov 19, 2021 16:59:07 GMT
Hi, just some information when doing the Sfd Unlocking. A fault "B184C00 - Activation active" will appear in the control unit you have unlocked and it will remain static until the control unit gets relocked. After that the error could disappear, if not just clear it. It might also appear in the data bus control unit 19. This is all normal
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Post by mitigating on Oct 26, 2022 4:15:49 GMT
Can you add this as a note in the app?
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