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Post by dazmlp on Jan 10, 2024 20:39:36 GMT
SO, this will sound long winded, but this is stereo upgrade related.
Essentially in MK8 Golf R, if you take the outputs of the factory HK amp, and utilize them in a LOC, or other amp, it will cause the computer, on start-up, to generate 2 errors.
1) Brake maneuvering unavailable
2) Park Distance may not be available.
This is related to a factory bootup check for speaker load on the output of the amp BC VW has decided to thro errors if speakers are not present. Probably b/c the parking safety sensors wouldn't make any noise if the amp/speakers weren't present.
In fact, the sensors DO operate, and sound still works, BUT when the car turns on it does a scan on the load generated by speakers to the factory amp. When it sees ANY different load than what is expected, it throws that error. My stereo shop has tried many different ways to kill this issue, including manual load generating resistors, and the latest software for the Mosconi amp that will scan the factory amp output and generate the proper load response back to eliminate the issue. HOWEVER, it doesn't happen BEFORE the computer does its initial scan for speakers. If you reboot the infotainment system after the amp has properly generated the load signal, the errors are removed. It's really a timing issue.
We've also tried the mk7 ways of telling the system NOT to use the factory amp, but that fails as well.
SO my question remains, and yes it will probably be a manual coding, IS there a way to eliminate, via OBD11, the car booting up and checking for speaker load to prevent those errors from popping up?
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Post by hollowman on Jun 29, 2024 20:47:15 GMT
Ever figure this out  I just did the Focal speaker upgrade and now I have these errors |
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Post by porterhouse100 on Jul 17, 2024 16:20:40 GMT
Same problem after Focal installation - actually the amp - worked fine with just the speakers.
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Post by hollowman on Jul 17, 2024 20:26:34 GMT
I previously upgraded the spare tire sub with built in amp, no issue. Now I do the speakers and I have this, super annoying. So from searching all over, I found where people said to turn the automatic speaker test to manual/off and nothing changed.   |
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Post by porterhouse100 on Jul 18, 2024 23:18:55 GMT
I have been informed by focal France and focal USA that I need to install a Focal SPK load simulator and all will be good. I was informed that you can install audio control load generator as well and this will also work but you will have to cut the harness.
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Post by porterhouse100 on Jul 18, 2024 23:20:15 GMT
I have been informed by focal France and focal USA that I need to install a Focal SPK load simulator and all will be good. I was informed that you can install audio control load generator as well and this will also work but you will have to cut the harness.
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Post by skibumdc on Jul 19, 2024 11:31:29 GMT
That would work ONLY if you upgraded the speakers and did not add an amplifier.
If you add this between an aftermarket amp and the aftermarket speakers, not only are you introducing a second bottleneck that will screw up tuning, but the factory amp will still not see the proper resistance exiting the factory amp, and therefore throw the error.
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Post by hollowman on Jul 19, 2024 17:15:58 GMT
So what’s the solution to my problem?
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Post by porterhouse100 on Jul 22, 2024 20:37:39 GMT
I did my upgrade in two stages, and the speaker installation did not cause the fault.
I won’t get the part for a few days but the load generator is placed between the radio output and the amp so we shall see what happens.
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Post by hollowman on Jul 23, 2024 12:19:29 GMT
Let me know the part number of the load generator and if it works, thanks
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Post by porterhouse100 on Jul 27, 2024 21:31:44 GMT
Can confirm the the Focal SPK load gen solves rear alert issues. Mine is an S so installation took 20 mins. Full part number is IW SPK SIM
cad in uk and others will ship one cheaper than buying in us which appears to be out of stock. 12volt in Latvia is cheapest and fast but out of stock.
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Post by hollowman on Jul 28, 2024 22:49:17 GMT
I found on Crutchfield site for $99, did you only need 1?  |
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Post by skibumdc on Jul 29, 2024 11:32:55 GMT
Curious on a few things.
1) What the load resistors are inside the tape for each speaker?
2) What the pin-outs are for the plug adapter if people just wanted to cutoff the ends and use it inline from factory amp to aftermarket amp. ?
Either way it would seem to resolve the issue so may folks are discovering in our efforts to get quality audio from what otherwise is an awesome car.
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Post by lumpylouis on Aug 1, 2024 20:30:44 GMT
Sorry, but I'm unclear on the IW SPK SIM. Based on the description on their product page, it seems it is designed specifically for use with the Impulse 4.320 amplifier. I have Focal speakers with OEM amp. I don't have an aftermarket amp. Will this product solve the parking errors with my factory amp/Focal speakers? Will I have to cut/splice wires or is it plug and play with the OEM wiring?
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Post by skibumdc on Aug 2, 2024 15:36:41 GMT
While the Focal connector is meant for their Impulse amplifier, the resistors they are using inside the heat-shrink tubing are the "magic sauce" needed for any amplifier to be added after the factory amplifier and NOT throw the error codes.
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Post by hollowman on Aug 2, 2024 19:45:57 GMT
Update on my situation- I already added an aftermarket spare tire sub to replace the factory one and had no issues. When I updated the factory speakers to the focal then I had the parking errors. So today I first when to my sub installer and told him my situation, he said that connector is for their sub only and won’t help my speaker issue. I then called Focal and spoke to a tech who said the same thing and also said those focal speakers were for their base system to upgrade not the premium system I have and there is no way to get rid of that error besides putting the original speakers back because of the way Harmon Kardon has their system set up and it is locked down so you can bypass it. So tomorrow I am putting the front door speakers back, the tech said it is the fronts that are causing the error, the backs should be fine. We will see
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Post by porterhouse100 on Aug 4, 2024 16:25:18 GMT
That kind of makes sense as my installation was on an S which doesn’t have and amp and has the basic 7 speaker set up.
What I can say is it wasn’t the speakers that caused the rear alert issue, it was the amp.
I have read a lot of forums about this and from what I can gather these load generators (there used a lot nowadays) match the expected ohms of your set up so the sound from whatever warning device can play at the ‘boot up’ of your car. I suspect they just give an initial resistance and then become passive.
I wonder if the HK speakers you have are the same ohms as the base? If you can measure the resistance difference, audio control sells 3 or 4 different load generators.
ironically, the Focal installation guys use them, not the Focal Unit.
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Post by porterhouse100 on Aug 4, 2024 16:30:25 GMT
It’s designed to go between the head unit and whatever comes next, in my case, an aftermarket amp.
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Post by hollowman on Aug 4, 2024 17:03:42 GMT
So I put just the front door stock speakers in , left the Focal tweeters and the Focal rear door speakers and no more errors. 👍
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Post by porterhouse100 on Aug 4, 2024 17:17:07 GMT
My guess is that if you split up the load generator and placed it in the path between amp and front focals problem would go away- but I can only speak from an S perspective. Good for you on the errors going away.
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Post by porterhouse100 on Aug 4, 2024 17:25:00 GMT
So I put just the front door stock speakers in , left the Focal tweeters and the Focal rear door speakers and no more errors. 👍 Question - out of your amp, is the front door mid the same channel as your front tweeter, or is it like mine where it’s the same channel? Mine is base model with no oem amp. |
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Post by hollowman on Aug 4, 2024 19:25:30 GMT
Well according to the Focal tech this was the only answer and the Focal load generators were strictly for an amp. I’m no audio expert so who knows, just glad I got rid of the errors.
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Post by jay1796 on Aug 6, 2024 8:15:19 GMT
I just had all these problems in an install I completed on a 2024 mk8 with the HK audio system. This is going to be a long response, but hopefully it helps you out. Im not a member on here, but I signed up to let you know what solved my issues.
Some info about the install:
1. Replaced all speakers in the mk8. Focal kx2 in the front, including the center channel, and Kx2 in the rear.
2. Removed the factory sub + installed a jl 13tw5
3. Audison Forza 12.14 runs the stereo fully active
4. Jl amp runs the 13tw5
5. Audio signal is received from the HK amp. Lines are cut, + audio out from HK goes into Forza Dsp amp. Forza amp also feeds audio signal to jl sub amp.
After completing the install, the errors I was getting after upgrading the audio system were:
1. None of the front/side park assist sensors worked
2. SOS service light was on + rear park sensors are inactive
3. Brake maneuvering unavailable
Running my scan tool showed me that there was:
1. Open circuit on front doors left + right.
2. Tone output of driver assistance systems - amplifier, implausible signal
This is what I did to resolve all my issues I was having.
1. SOS service light + inactive rear park sensors- remove focal center channel speaker + reinstall factory center speaker. I had to do this bc the center speaker is not fed by the HK amp, but by the SOS module behind the gauge cluster. This resolved my issue but the downside is that the audio output is not controlled by the dsp amp and I can't manipulate the gain control, frequency, or the time delay of the speaker
2. Parking sensor + brake maneuvering malfunction - I originally tapped only 1 audio output line from each front door to feed my Forza amp. This was a big problem bc the vehicle was seeing open circuits at startup and throwing codes. The way I was able to resolve this was to use a audison uss4 impedance simulator. This allowed me to trick the vehicle into thinking there were speakers still connected to all 4 audio output lines at the HK amp. The mk8 originally used a 2x2 dual voice coil 6.5" front door woofer
The audison uss4 has inputs for left front door coil 1+2, + right front door coil 1+2. Then it can output directly to the aftermarket amp front L+R high level inputs
The vehicle systems are now operating normally just as if the factory stereo was still in the car
FYI, the 2024 mk8 does not communicate with the headunit through MOST, but through A2B + ethernet
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Post by skibumdc on Aug 6, 2024 10:10:01 GMT
Great information here. Yes the Center channel is a PITA and does get it's signal via the SOS system. They clearly had different sets of engineers working on separate systems, and didn't coordinate at all. I'll definitely look into the Audison USS4. Nice little piece of tech there. SO it appears the HK AMP is only checking the woofers being present, and not tweeters? Assumed the HK amp was active and not using a passive crossover somewhere to separate the woofer & tweeter signals? I just had all these problems in an install I completed on a 2024 mk8 with the HK audio system. This is going to be a long response, but hopefully it helps you out. Im not a member on here, but I signed up to let you know what solved my issues. Some info about the install: 1. Replaced all speakers in the mk8. Focal kx2 in the front, including the center channel, and Kx2 in the rear. 2. Removed the factory sub + installed a jl 13tw5 3. Audison Forza 12.14 runs the stereo fully active 4. Jl amp runs the 13tw5 5. Audio signal is received from the HK amp. Lines are cut, + audio out from HK goes into Forza Dsp amp. Forza amp also feeds audio signal to jl sub amp. After completing the install, the errors I was getting after upgrading the audio system were: 1. None of the front/side park assist sensors worked 2. SOS service light was on + rear park sensors are inactive 3. Brake maneuvering unavailable Running my scan tool showed me that there was: 1. Open circuit on front doors left + right. 2. Tone output of driver assistance systems - amplifier, implausible signal This is what I did to resolve all my issues I was having. 1. SOS service light + inactive rear park sensors- remove focal center channel speaker + reinstall factory center speaker. I had to do this bc the center speaker is not fed by the HK amp, but by the SOS module behind the gauge cluster. This resolved my issue but the downside is that the audio output is not controlled by the dsp amp and I can't manipulate the gain control, frequency, or the time delay of the speaker 2. Parking sensor + brake maneuvering malfunction - I originally tapped only 1 audio output line from each front door to feed my Forza amp. This was a big problem bc the vehicle was seeing open circuits at startup and throwing codes. The way I was able to resolve this was to use a audison uss4 impedance simulator. This allowed me to trick the vehicle into thinking there were speakers still connected to all 4 audio output lines at the HK amp. The mk8 originally used a 2x2 dual voice coil 6.5" front door woofer The audison uss4 has inputs for left front door coil 1+2, + right front door coil 1+2. Then it can output directly to the aftermarket amp front L+R high level inputs The vehicle systems are now operating normally just as if the factory stereo was still in the car FYI, the 2024 mk8 does not communicate with the headunit through MOST, but through A2B + ethernet |
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Post by jay1796 on Aug 6, 2024 22:24:04 GMT
Great information here. Yes the Center channel is a PITA and does get it's signal via the SOS system. They clearly had different sets of engineers working on separate systems, and didn't coordinate at all. I'll definitely look into the Audison USS4. Nice little piece of tech there. SO it appears the HK AMP is only checking the woofers being present, and not tweeters? Assumed the HK amp was active and not using a passive crossover somewhere to separate the woofer & tweeter signals? I just had all these problems in an install I completed on a 2024 mk8 with the HK audio system. This is going to be a long response, but hopefully it helps you out. Im not a member on here, but I signed up to let you know what solved my issues. Some info about the install: 1. Replaced all speakers in the mk8. Focal kx2 in the front, including the center channel, and Kx2 in the rear. 2. Removed the factory sub + installed a jl 13tw5 3. Audison Forza 12.14 runs the stereo fully active 4. Jl amp runs the 13tw5 5. Audio signal is received from the HK amp. Lines are cut, + audio out from HK goes into Forza Dsp amp. Forza amp also feeds audio signal to jl sub amp. After completing the install, the errors I was getting after upgrading the audio system were: 1. None of the front/side park assist sensors worked 2. SOS service light was on + rear park sensors are inactive 3. Brake maneuvering unavailable Running my scan tool showed me that there was: 1. Open circuit on front doors left + right. 2. Tone output of driver assistance systems - amplifier, implausible signal This is what I did to resolve all my issues I was having. 1. SOS service light + inactive rear park sensors- remove focal center channel speaker + reinstall factory center speaker. I had to do this bc the center speaker is not fed by the HK amp, but by the SOS module behind the gauge cluster. This resolved my issue but the downside is that the audio output is not controlled by the dsp amp and I can't manipulate the gain control, frequency, or the time delay of the speaker 2. Parking sensor + brake maneuvering malfunction - I originally tapped only 1 audio output line from each front door to feed my Forza amp. This was a big problem bc the vehicle was seeing open circuits at startup and throwing codes. The way I was able to resolve this was to use a audison uss4 impedance simulator. This allowed me to trick the vehicle into thinking there were speakers still connected to all 4 audio output lines at the HK amp. The mk8 originally used a 2x2 dual voice coil 6.5" front door woofer The audison uss4 has inputs for left front door coil 1+2, + right front door coil 1+2. Then it can output directly to the aftermarket amp front L+R high level inputs The vehicle systems are now operating normally just as if the factory stereo was still in the car FYI, the 2024 mk8 does not communicate with the headunit through MOST, but through A2B + ethernet The HK amp is fully active except for the rear doors. The rear door tweeters run passive through the woofer. I took front tweeter + woofer, rear door, and sub signal from the HK amp into the dsp |
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Post by danheb on Aug 24, 2024 23:10:06 GMT
I used an Helix amplifier twelve Mk2 it has a circuit that will handle the impedance when you used high output (speakers) the oem amplifier from the MK8. I did it and it work flawlessly. That is an improvement.this wayI was able to replace all speakers from the car with Helix and Brax speakers (center dash, front mid bass, front tweeters, rear mid bass, rear tweeters, sub woofers). The Helex twelve mk2 has 14 dsp, so each speaker can be adjusted according and take into account the time response. Pretty incredible.
I also add a Bluetooth HD card to bypass the head unit whenever I want to reward myself with pure HD music, whit the Director from Helix I can choose the inputs between the oem head unit of the HD card have different set up depending on what I am listening to. Infinite possibilities is what I am talking about. It now kicks asses.
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Post by spikelou on Sept 25, 2024 0:12:28 GMT
I used an Helix amplifier twelve Mk2 it has a circuit that will handle the impedance when you used high output (speakers) the oem amplifier from the MK8. I did it and it work flawlessly. That is an improvement.this wayI was able to replace all speakers from the car with Helix and Brax speakers (center dash, front mid bass, front tweeters, rear mid bass, rear tweeters, sub woofers). The Helex twelve mk2 has 14 dsp, so each speaker can be adjusted according and take into account the time response. Pretty incredible. I also add a Bluetooth HD card to bypass the head unit whenever I want to reward myself with pure HD music, whit the Director from Helix I can choose the inputs between the oem head unit of the HD card have different set up depending on what I am listening to. Infinite possibilities is what I am talking about. It now kicks asses. Where did you grab the source for the center speaker from? Please tell me it wasn't buried in the dash. I am going the Helix DSP amp route but I'm hoping to sum the center channel in and have it run through the fronts. Not even sure that will work but I'm going to try because I'd rather not have to deal with latency issues from leaving it unprocessed.
Thanks in advance, Lou
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I just did the Focal speaker upgrade and now I have these errors