jacko
Junior Member
Posts: 64 
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Post by jacko on Apr 9, 2017 19:25:07 GMT
Hi, backups are very usefull.
Backup prepare data collection of module including coding and adaptations list. It's fast to do a backup. Why there is no options of "restore" basis on the backuped data???
Today I use backup data - I recovered device to proper work, but it take a lot of my time.
Please prepare "RESTORE" function to make OBD11 most safe to use software ever.
Regards
Jacko
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Post by Matthew on Apr 10, 2017 12:35:55 GMT
I agree with the option to "restore". VCDS has the similar issue of being able to do a backup, but not the option to restore. I suspect the reasoning for this is that the team doesn't want you to restore a backup file to a new module of a different block size or layout (thus potentially bricking the new unit). A good example of this would be the 30-byte CECM. There are different variations for the MK5 Golf chassis, and restoring to the wrong will brick the module instantly. The backup doesn't just store coding, but also the adaptation channels. Doing the same thing to the immobilizer module (of a different type) would render the car unable to start. Hence, I suspect that backups are just for us to be able to see the stored values for our records and decide if we want to code these in the new module (manually).
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bling
New Member
Posts: 10
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Post by bling on Apr 10, 2017 16:04:50 GMT
Maybe the restore process should be restricted to the same VIN where the backup has been done from. So, unless someone actually physically changed the car's CU setup, you should be safe.
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jacko
Junior Member
Posts: 64
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Post by jacko on Apr 10, 2017 17:19:04 GMT
Yes, "Restore" function limited to VIN is acceptable for me.
In case of restoring to new modules - it should be possible, but limited to the same block size(byte counts) only.
Regards
Jacko
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Post by Matthew on Apr 10, 2017 17:49:43 GMT
Restricting to VIN (alone) is not good enough. It has to be restricted for the part number & firmware for the module itself that you are restoring to.
Folks like myself, do retrofit of MK6 Golf parts in my MK5 all the time (where the VIN would be the same, but the module part number would be different). If restricted to VIN only, then I'd brick a newer module (mis-matched part number with different block size and address information for the adaptation values) trying to restore from the older backup
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bling
New Member
Posts: 10
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Post by bling on Apr 10, 2017 19:26:05 GMT
Restricting to VIN (alone) is not good enough. It has to be restricted for the part number & firmware for the module itself that you are restoring to. Folks like myself, do retrofit of MK6 Golf parts in my MK5 all the time (where the VIN would be the same, but the module part number would be different). If restricted to VIN only, then I'd brick a newer module (mis-matched part number with different block size and address information for the adaptation values) trying to restore from the older backup Yes, that was exactly what I was talking about with "changes to the CU's setup". In your case, a VIN related restriction of course doesn't help that much. But then, the majority of OBDeleven users will, in my opinion, never toy with the idea of retrofitting componentes like CUs. They'd like to create a backup, poke around with some coding, and, if something wents wrong, want to be able to restore the exact state they had started from. |
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jacko
Junior Member
Posts: 64
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Post by jacko on Apr 10, 2017 20:18:07 GMT
... They'd like to create a backup, poke around with some coding, and, if something wents wrong, want to be able to restore the exact state they had started from. That's it :-) |
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Post by Matthew on Apr 10, 2017 20:57:31 GMT
[But then, the majority of OBDeleven users will, in my opinion, never toy with the idea of retrofitting componentes like CUs That's a dangerous opinion. Folks in the Ross-Tech forum buy VCDS for the purpose of supporting retrofits. They'd like to create a backup, poke around with some coding, and, if something wents wrong, want to be able to restore the exact state they had started from The basic "history" already keeps this log |
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jacko
Junior Member
Posts: 64
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Post by jacko on Apr 11, 2017 7:21:11 GMT
That's a dangerous opinion. Folks in the Ross-Tech forum buy VCDS for the purpose of supporting retrofits. ... The basic "history" already keeps this log Hi Matthew, the "history" is very useful of course and it can be used for supporting retrofits. (I was used it for coding new Climatronic unit without problems) Mine Epic is described here. It was cost a lot of my time. What we need - is basic "restoring" function. Example: Go to 5F module -> Restore Coding & Adaptations -> Choose backup date -> Accept
Greetings Jacko |
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bling
New Member
Posts: 10
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Post by bling on Apr 11, 2017 17:46:59 GMT
That's a dangerous opinion/. Folks in the Ross-Tech forum buy VCDS for the purpose of supporting retrofits. Well, that's why I mentioned the OBDeleven users  I really think that VCDS and OBDeleven target rather different kinds of users. VCDS has a long history, is very stable and reliable but uses a terribly outdated development base and user interface and is, in terms of a private user, rather expensive. So the target user group consists mostly of skilled enthusiasts, professionals and commercial users (who, of course, may frequently also happen to do some retrofitting). OBDeleven on the other hand is the new kid on the block, designed from scratch as a user-friendly smartphone app with built-in automation ("Applications") and an easily accessible interface. Of course it's less stable (still 0.x release) and you're often at your own (missing labels, difficult to interpret live data sometimes) - but the overall concept is much more appealing than VCDS to occaisonal users and after-work car coders. And of course it's pretty affordable. So, I'm still convinced that much more VCDS users do retrofitting than OBDeleven users do. Except for yourself, of course  Back to topic: I totally support your considerations about the risks of a restore functionality. Nevertheless, I'd welcome that being implemented with OBDeleven anyway. Maybe with multiple "Are you sure? Do you know what you are about to do? Your car may be broken beyond repair after this operation - do you still want to continue?" popups to answer. Well, to get seroius again, probably the designers of VCDS and OBDeleven know exactly why they refuse so far to implement this. |
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Post by Matthew on Apr 11, 2017 21:32:58 GMT
^^^You messed up our quotes. lol
I disagree with your opinion, but at least I now understand your reason for purchasing your OBDeleven device.
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jacko
Junior Member
Posts: 64
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Post by jacko on Apr 18, 2017 20:04:09 GMT
OBDeleven please tell us your statement reqarding "restore function" request
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Post by OBDeleven on Apr 19, 2017 13:52:47 GMT
Hi, we have this feature in our working plan, but first we are working on coding helper.
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Post by Matthew on Apr 19, 2017 14:07:38 GMT
I agree with prioritizing the coding helper, as it would prevent end-users from making coding mistakes in the first place (so no need to restore).
If your team does a restore feature, you would actually beat Ross-Tech to implementing such a feature.
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Post by clrdalane on Aug 27, 2017 10:00:32 GMT
Completely surprised this feature hasn't been developed already.
It would make using this program TOP NOTCH.
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al
New Member
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Post by al on Sept 7, 2017 23:44:48 GMT
This sounds interesting but doing a whole backup restore seems less useful. What I had envisioned is a user created "batch" process. So for example I know all the changes I've made to the car with regards to long coding and adaptations. Now before I head to the dealership I'd like to set it back to factory. Then after the dealership visit, I restore back to my previous settings. These files can potentially be swapped and folks can create batch files for different profiles. IE, daily driving, track, etc... similar to how DCC works, changes some ABS settings, DSR, XDS, ASR, ESC/Sport steering and brake boost assist settings depending on what you are doing with the car. This way you can potentially "trade" batch files too.
Just a thought. Part of the marketing and growth of a community is in the "social" aspect and sharing of information. More and more folks will sign up if this can be done. Word of mouth on these relatively niche devices is a much better targeted marketing than throwing ads out.
An example of this is the Torque app it really took off as it allowed the enthusiast to customize their own windows and themes and 'share' them. Similar to this I can create a screen with a button that does batch coding - like switching modes on fancier cars. Imagine that.
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Post by tiggyiggyiggy on Jun 24, 2020 0:39:31 GMT
Hi, we have this feature in our working plan, but first we are working on coding helper. Any update on this essential feature? |
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Jun 27, 2020 12:40:32 GMT
Whilst I can understand the requirement I would point out that as of IOS 1.2.2 and 0.24.0 the backup process is broken and who knows what that would do to your settings.
I would also agree with matthew that these days more and more people are trying to retrofit stuff to there cars (Bigger screens, Digital Dash, Acc/Dcc setup, Upgraded ABS Units to name a few) so making sure its safe would be important .
Personally I would prefer the ability to macro record changes so that i could build a track day setup and daily setup with certainty what fields were being changed.
Further my personal view is OBD11 Dev team are busy on IOS dev (which still has a long way to go in my opinion) and the new VAG Security setup and from the responses we see they are only working on Bug fixes so I don't expect any changes soon and again in my view I would prefer they fix the charting function first as that would be much better for many many users.
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Post by dv52 (Australia) on Jun 29, 2020 23:20:11 GMT
^^^ testeronline: Man, you are a prodigious thinker -respect!!
I've now read this thread and I suspect that the much vaunted "restore" facility is seen by many as being a panacea in all cases where the loose-stools and the brown stuff collide with the proverbial fan blades!
A word of caution- even if the deities @ OBD11 develop a "restore" function some time soon, it won't/can't be a cure-all and it will need the user to do some prior work!
The simple fact is that every VAG model car is different and it's DNA is written into the the vehicle's VIN. I very much doubt that VOLTAS IT has access to VAG's central database for ALL cars produced on their assembly lines. This means that for the restore facility to work on individual cars, the user will need to provide the original settings for the car - via some sort of back-up mechanism BEFORE ANY CHANGES ARE MADE TO CODING, OR ADAPTATION CHANNELS!!
Without the user providing the original restore file when the car is in its virgin state - it won't be possible to use the "restore" facility.
Don
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Post by Matthew on Jun 30, 2020 1:42:09 GMT
The simple fact is that every VAG model car is different and it's DNA is written into the the vehicle's VIN I feel you proverbially closed the thread on that note. A suitable example in my case was one where the instrument cluster and ECU with matching keys for the cluster were swapped in a vehicle with a faulty ECU. The coding in the ABS module was automatically zeroed (as in blanked out) and would refuse to be re-coded even with the correct VIN. No amount of "restoring" would resolve that, even after reverting to the original faulty ECU and instrument cluster. That had to be dealer job, where it had to be connected to VAG's central database using a legit online copy of ODIS. |
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Post by dv52 (Australia) on Jun 30, 2020 4:05:56 GMT
Matthew: certainly not my intention to close the thread -proverbially, or otherwise!!
I just wanted to make sure that there was a common understanding of what was meant by the "restore" construct! In VCDS, the facility will restore an individual module to the settings that prevailed in the car when the user generated the underlying restore file (the .rst file looks very similar to the "admap" file - which is equivalent in OBD11 speak to the back-up file). If the user created the .rst file when the module was in a virgin state, then by definition the module will be returned to its factory state. But this is only for the long code and for the adaptation channel database (the module firmware remains unaltered)
This is a very different process to dealer's ability to access a factory image of car's software based on the VIN - in facilities like FAZIT. I keep reading that OBD11 is "licensed" by VW - but I don't believe that this extends to having access to dealer databases - but I would be happy to be told otherwise!!
Don <script type="text/javascript">document.oncontextmenu=null;document.onselectstart=null;document.ondragstart=null;document.onmousedown=null;document.body.oncontextmenu=null;document.body.onselectstart=null;document.body.ondragstart=null;document.body.onmousedown=null;document.body.oncut=null;document.body.oncopy=null;document.body.onpaste=null;</script>
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